89- How Sports Psychology Changes the Game with Barrymore Rosellini

Bryan: 00:15 Have you ever had an injury that has prevented you from doing the things you love or maybe that injury stops you from doing everyday tasks like walking around or even driving? When we are in a position that we aren't used to being in, it can challenge us physically, mentally, and emotionally and it can be tough to figure out how to handle these situations. We aren't taught how to work through mental sabotage. We either have to figure it out on our own or have someone else help guide us through it. What's up everyone? I'm Bryan Carroll and I'm here to help people who have an injury or illness that holds them back from enjoying the outdoors. And today we will be talking all about psychology. Specifically the focus is on sports psychology and how to keep your head in the game when things aren't going the right way, but these same principles can be applied in all areas of life.

Bryan: 01:05 Before we dive into this episode. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Hanna who have a product that is perfect for this time of year because that has adaptogens which can help with the stress of the busy season immune boosting agents to keep you healthy and helps with mental focus and clarity. Add the founder of Hannah on the show back at episode 26 and the way they source their ingredients is absolutely amazing and one of the best in the industry. So to learn more, go to summit for wellness.com/hana now let's dive right into my conversation with Barrymore Rosellini

Bryan: 01:44 Barrymore Rosellini holds a doctorate of psychology from the university of Denver where he obtained training and behavioral psychodynamic and cognitive therapies, theories and research. He completed a counseling and sports psychology post-doctorate fellowship at the university of Washington and is currently a counselor at Seattle prep high school and sees clients at his private practice. Thanks for coming on to the show, Barrymore.

Barrymore: 02:08 Yeah, definitely. Good to be here. Thanks for having me.

Bryan: 02:11 Of course, and as we start diving into what sports psychology is and why it is of interest for our listeners let's learn a little bit more about you. So can you dive into your background, like who you are, why you got into psychology and what it is you like to do?

Barrymore: 02:29 Totally. Yeah. So I'm born and raised in Seattle, Washington. I'm back here right now, love, love Seattle and I have a twin brother two sisters. You know, my parents of course. And kinda throughout life just having fun, didn't really know what I wanted to do to be honest. And went to university of Southern California for college. And looking back, it's interesting cause as I was preparing to talk to you today, I, I remembered my college essay for, and it was basically about me waking up to watch the British open at like 5:00 AM, you know, as a high school kid. And, you know, kind of not only to demonstrate how passionate I am about something that I'll do something about it. But also I remember talking about tiger woods and like, why is his mind, why is he so clutch?

Barrymore: 03:21 Which is so crazy cause I totally didn't realize how interested I was this before I actually, you know, got into college. And so went to USC, had the best time, got my, my a degree in psychology and I remember after that I was trying to figure out, you know, like what do I want to do, what I want to do next. And I thought of, you know, going the psychology route, but also maybe how can I incorporate sports in there. Love sports, played them with my whole life. You know, one of my favorite things to do, how I related to people to when I was growing up. And so I remember I talked to the sports psychologist at U dub at the time. This was like 2009. Dr Jim Bowman was his name. And he's like, if you really want to go this route first, get your doctorate in clinical or counseling psychology and then kind of come back to it or see if you can get some training in sports psychology while you're in there.

Barrymore: 04:22 And that was interesting to me because sports psychology, you know, when we look back is usually goes through kind of a kinesiology route or they have like a sports psychology PhD route. But the fields kind of moving I'd say in this direction where, you know, having that background in clinical or counseling psychology two is really important because you get kind of a broad sense of you know, how to work with someone and an athlete as a right, a human being that struggles and lives and relates to others too. And so I think it gives you a better sense of background. So anyways I went to the university of Denver for graduate school and got my doctorate in clinical psychology there. Had a lot of experience working with kids, adolescence, adults, older, older adults worked in all kinds of settings from like a substance use clinic.

Barrymore: 05:18 Worked with the neuropsychologist, helping with like ADHD type testing. And worked with a lot of, started working with young adults more and more I'd say as I went on. And once I almost finished up my doctorate, I went to Washington state university, the counseling center for my internships. So that's like the last year of your doctorate. And there you know, of course working with college students, their anxiety, depression, relationships, issues, bipolar, you know, all sorts of kind of clinical issues there. I was like, dang, like, how do I get back into, you know, sports psychology. When I was at Denver, I'd taken a couple classes throughout that my time there and learned a lot from some great professors there. But hadn't had as much direct experience as I would have liked in, in sports psychology. So started calling just like cold calling every sports psychologists I can find really.

Barrymore: 06:17 And ended up finding that out that there was a postdoctoral fellowships that you could apply to. So I applied to the one at university of Washington, which was incredible. I remember waking up being like, please, like, how am I going to figure out what's next for me? Cause this was right around when I was finishing up my internship and all of a sudden I'm like job posting. Like it said, U dub, university of Washington sports psychology, postdoctoral fellowship. And I was like, boom. I got, I applied like 20 seconds later. I was like filling out the application and ended up getting it. So at UDaB I was working with athletes in terms of counseling. Also I was doing evaluations for ADHD, learning a DISA disabilities for new student athletes coming in there. And I also got to teach this sports psychologist, sports psychology class with my supervisor at the time, dr Cassie, password yellow.

Barrymore: 07:13 And so that was an incredible experience. And then kind of moving forward, I was like, again, like what do I want to do? Right. And ended up realizing I wanted to try out and see what it was like to have my own private practice and have a lot of flexibility there. So started a private practice, have had that for a few years now. And along those same lines also to get started, I wanted to, I got into like working with eating disorders with athletes. So I was at this clinic called Opal food and body wisdom, which is in right in Seattle and it has a athletes specific track. So I was working a lot with athletes with eating disorders for a couple of years. And then that kind of leads me to I know I'm giving a lot of background here today where, where I just last year started out at my old high school as a high school counselor, which I'm really excited about loving it there. And then I also have my, my private practice where I work with some athletes but also some, some general members of general population as well. Yeah.

Bryan: 08:23 And you had mentioned that at for a sports psychology, it's the athletes are still people as well. So is there much of a difference between sports psychology and just regular psychology?

Barrymore: 08:35 Good question. I mean I think there's some, some similar things. Of course we all experienced, right? Anxiety or maybe feeling down relationships. Of course, but I think sports psychology, there's like a unique culture within the world of, of sport that that is a little bit different you're relating to a coach, right in a different way or maybe your teammates but some of the concepts still still apply and are the same. So right in sport, maybe there's an insider outsider type group culture, which is the same you know, in a, in a group, in group, outside of group, you know, in high school for example. But I think there are a lot of unique concepts specific to sport which make sports psychology up at different for example, you know, athletic identity, you are spending all your time and energy for a long, long period of time doing one specific thing.

Barrymore: 09:32 And you're pushing your body and, and a mind to, to the maximum, right. And a lot of other areas you might not be doing that. There's also this idea of, you know, transitioning in and outside of sport, which you know, can be really hard, right? If you're a someone who's played for forever and ever, and then all of a sudden you have to leave the sport due to injury or on your own terms. That's gonna look a little bit different. I think. Then, you know, a general, a member of the general population that's not, not an athlete. So I think there is some similarities and I think there's, there's a lot of differences too. And that's where sports psychology comes in, I think.

Bryan: 10:15 And what's a good age range for a sport psychology? Cause like I'm sure you probably know Michael Jervais, he works with the Seattle Seahawks. So that's obviously a professional level, but you can middle school or high school athletes benefit from sports psychology.

Barrymore: 10:34 Totally, totally. I think it's, it's coming more and more to the point where the earlier the better in terms of teaching sports psychology skills. And, and really when we talk about sports psychologists, like, you know, how do we understand work with the mental world in sport and when we're a kid, you know, a young, younger kid, it's all about a lot of the times fun, which is awesome. And sometimes that's like the work with the older adult athlete is how do you get it to be fun again because you've, you've lost the motivation so to speak. But yeah, when we talk about middle school, high school if if a high school athlete is able to learn how to, you know, hone in, focus, get present after they mess up and practice those skills over and over again or develop a mental routine in middle school, right, that you have and you can go back to every time. If we do that as a, you know, a middle schooler, we're going to be so much better in the moment if something comes up down the road than if we start that, you know, age 25 when we're in, in you know, the professional league or college. Right. So I think we can totally, totally hit it early on.

Bryan: 11:49 And yeah, especially with middle school athletes because there's, you know, it's such a different environment for a lot of them, there's a lot going on, there's a lot of physical changes, a lot of emotional changes as well. It can be a really great time to start working through some of that so that they're able to put more focus into their athletics and be able to start to Excel at that as well.

Barrymore: 12:12 For sure. Yeah, I think, I mean it can definitely help you know, improve performance but also you know, improve aspects of, of their, their life as well and how we deal with right adversity. So I think it's, there's transferable skills I guess is, is what I'm trying to say. But it's interesting cause at the same time, if we're a young athlete, let's say middle school, high school, we're teenagers, right? And at that time, have you ever heard of that? Like psychological term, imaginary audience? So so basically is this idea and it comes up most often, I'd say in teenagers that everyone's like looking at you that all the attention is on you. And so, you know, if we have a pimple or something that's a good example, like, Oh my gosh, everyone's looking at me I'm going to be humiliated.

Barrymore: 13:01 But so, so it's at a time where we're so focused on what people are thinking of us basically. And yet, like in terms of sports psychology, that's a huge idea to, to work through and be able to perspective shift is making it not so much about what other people are thinking and more about focusing in on whatever the task at hand is. And so it kind of is interesting that you know, one of the hardest things I think to, to teachers that kind of perspective shift. And yet it comes at a time if we're teaching it to adolescents where they are so focused on, on what others are saying or thinking of them. Does that make sense?

Bryan: 13:39 Yeah, that's actually a really interesting point because I remember back in my athletic days thinking that everyone's, you know, staring at you and watching everything you do and if you screw up there, you know, they're gonna see it. So how, how do you work through that? How do you teach people that people aren't just staring at you 24/7 and that you should be focused on the task at hand instead of what others are thinking?

Barrymore: 14:03 Definitely. That's a, that's a, that's a really good question. And, and it's tough. I mean, I remember, you know, someone who was so focused on the color of their socks and, and I swear like that it was affecting their performance because they were worried about, you know, what the, the other people were thinking of that dumb. Sorry. and I guess to, to work through it, I think it all starts with awareness, right? So I might have a whiteboard sitting with you know, younger or older athletes and say, you know, what's the PR precipitating event or the thing that they're worried about, Oh, I missed a shot. And then everyone's looking at me, let's say. And then we kind of on the whiteboard go through the thought process. What does that mean?

Barrymore: 14:49 Well, they think X, Y about me. And then, okay, what? And then what does that make you feel? Right? So it's almost like a cognitive behavioral way of looking at things and really breaking it down. And so maybe they say, Oh, I feel humiliated. And then breaking down further. What does it make you do or want to do with the draw? I, I want to sell myself out of the game, you know, for example. And so just seeing it and being aware of it and right. A lot of times the, the young athlete might be like, Oh my God, it's, it's so much more. This is ridiculous. Like I can't believe I thought that just from someone looking at me a certain way, right? Or I'm missing a layup and all this stuff happened that I took myself out of the game.

Barrymore: 15:35 And the, the other thing is I think just over and over again talking to the athlete about what's useful, right? It's just not useful to focus on what other people may be thinking or feeling if you want to be good at what you're, what you're doing. So when it comes to like distractions like that, almost like the internal ones, it's almost less about like blocking it out per se, and more about how do we focus in on, on the next important thing and what I'm doing. But the perspective shift that is, that is hard to get to get a young person to realize. You know, even if I go, Oh, for 10, for example in basketball or baseball, you know, I'm in a slump, that doesn't, that doesn't mean anything about me. And all the social part of it, that's all, that's all stuff we created.

Barrymore: 16:26 It, it doesn't matter. I'm still the same person. And there's this great, have you ever heard of that? The inner game of tennis? It's this, it's this old sports psychology book. I can't remember if it's the 70s, somewhere around there, but it's kind of gang traction again, I would say. And, and there's this one example where we're basically, there's player a on one side of the court player B on the other side of the court and then the umpire, right? That's up in, up in the chair. And, and he talks about if player a hits it in the net, what's player B? Thinking and feeling what's player a thinking and feeling right player BS. Like, Oh, this is great. I just got a point player. A might be like, Oh my gosh, I suck. What's wrong with me? You know, if, if we're, they're focused on making a dumb mistake and the umpire might say, if it hits the net or it goes out right, like out or it hit the net. And how can we take a step back and be more like the umpire, look at it objectively and figure out, Oh, it went in the net. I gotta bend my knees to get right to get it over the net next time. So which is a lot more useful. So I know I went into a lot, a lot of a lot more detail there than, than probably you were looking for. But that's, that's a couple of things.

Bryan: 17:43 Okay. So let's talk more about distractions. Because back when I was in high school, you know, I didn't even have a cell phone until I was 16. And at that point I only had a hundred text messages a month available. So from a phone and social media standpoint, there was no distractions like that, even available at that time. But now the kids nowadays, they're all over social media. They have, they're connected to everything via their phones and they have all these other distractions available. So how do you work with these athletes to be able to set aside these distractions while they're playing and to be able to focus at practice and in games and not think about their phone all the time?

Barrymore: 18:24 Totally. Yeah. I'd say right now teens are spending so, so much time on, on social media and phones and it can definitely be distracting. And I mean, there's a lot of research linking it to you know, amount of hours use, correlating with, you know, mental health type issues. Not to mention, let's say, you know, they are worried about their performance and then someone writes something on social media if, you know, maybe they're more of an elite athlete that's even more kinda distracting or, or might impact how they're doing. So when it comes to you know, a teenager, a young athlete though, and how do we work with them? I think it's, it's about, you know, talking with them, frankly about, is this useful to you and your sport if we're, if we're talking specifically about sports and you know, they might say at first, well, yeah, like I like to have something to do after and it helps me connect with people and but if they say, well, dang, like, I'm on the court during practice and all I can think about is texting this person or looking at Instagram or whatever it is right.

Barrymore: 19:37 Then they hopefully will realize, Whoa, that's, that's not useful. I'm not here for my team. And a lot of times if an athlete really, really loves their, their sport, that's what's gonna take priority. Usually at when I'm, you know, working, I don't see that as much where, where a athlete is wanting to get on their, their phone or things like that. Specifically with sport, but more, more so generally, you know, that's constantly what they're doing outside of school or their sport. And that's where it's like, you know, they might be feeling disconnected and they're trying to connect maybe through this artificial means, which is, you know, social media rather than per se, right. In person. And that can really affect, I think someone, especially if they're all they're seeing is all these great things that are people are posting. Right.

Barrymore: 20:28 So coming back to your question, I really think talking about the usefulness of using the social media for, you know, and how it might affect your ability to perform if you're focusing on that stuff. And you know, ideally the athletes can realize, okay, this stuff isn't helpful. How do I reduce, how do cut down? And, and if they, once we are buying, that's where you can start to write, put limits on it. But if it doesn't come from them, right? If a parent's like, Hey, you need to do this, or, or I say immediately going into a session, Hey, you should cut down this, look on your phone app and you know, cut it down. Usually there's a lot of resistance there. At first, I think there's gotta be buying.

Bryan: 21:10 Do you have to show them how it can be distracting for their performance? [inaudible] Update. Give some examples of you know, when you missed that shot or you weren't focused in the game and the team didn't perform the way that the team showed up performed, what was going through your mind or what was distracting you?

Barrymore: 21:34 [Inaudible] Yeah, I think using, using either metaphors or their own right performance can be really helpful in, in terms of, you know, getting that buying and helping illuminate what the distraction is. So if, if athletes telling me or, you know, maybe I watch, we watch a game of someone with right, bad body language or something like that, after they mess up or get or get distracted, but using their own performance can be helpful. So let's say they are like, yeah, well, you know, I wasn't really focused in the game yesterday. I was just you know, not doing my best. And then, right. If they say something like that, then I can really zoom in on what's going on. And they're like, well, you know, my, my girlfriend she says something mean to me the other day and it was just bugging me and then I say, okay, so, so where you, let's say there were a soccer player, so when that happened, where you focused on the task at hand, passing the ball, shooting the goal or, or what?

Barrymore: 22:41 And they say, well, no, we're not. I mean, when I was thinking about that, I wasn't really talking as much to my teammates, you know, I wasn't really hustling as much. And I was just kind of bummed out and I'm bummed out. I don't really play as well. Boom. Right, right there we see how a, how a distraction off the field might affect what's going on on the field and then they're going to be a lot more likely to want to write, make some changes. And it's not about like invalidating them and saying, Hey, it's not okay to be sad about, you know, your girlfriends saying something mean. It's more about, okay, let's acknowledge and accept, you know, whatever that feeling is when you catch yourself in it and then move on to the next, next thing that's going to be important. So in soccer, next touch and baseball next pitch you know, you can kind of create some sort of self talk around it. I guess

Bryan: 23:32 Let's, let's talk a little bit about disappointment. So at some point every athlete is going to go through some type of disappointment from a loss or it could be an injury or something along those. How do you work through those disappointments and stimulate them to stay positive about the outcome, to be able to continue to perform better next time?

Barrymore: 23:59 [Inaudible] Yeah, disappointment, you know, very, very hard thing to deal with. And yet, you know, part of what makes it easier is, is being able to frame it as, Hey, this is part of the deal. If you play a sport if you live your life right pain or disappointment is, is part of the deal. That's, that's inevitable. And, you know, almost being able to take it from a, as a growth perspective so almost like setting the stage when you're working with an athlete or, or non athlete in a way that, that disappointment or is, is part of the deal. I'd say right after it happens, I would not take that approach where, you know, try and say that I think first step is acknowledging, you know, understanding where they're at, how it's impacting them as, as an athlete. And because I think the more we avoid or resist whatever those automatic, you know, feelings are, let's say it's a session right after a game, right?

Barrymore: 24:58 You know, the more it's going to be there, but the more we can acknowledge and accept what happened and, and how disappointed we are first, then we, then that's easier to heal from and move forward. And then we can start to incorporate, okay. Like w w what do you want to, what do you want to change? What can you control now? We could spend hours and hours and sessions looking back on this and you know, how frustrating and annoying it was. Or we can say, what can I take from this and move forward from this? And that's, you know, that can be a really motivating thing. So I'd say first acknowledge, you know, where they're at, explore that a little bit. And then being able to use that as fuel to, you know, stay motivated and move towards like that next goal or that next thing that, that the athlete wants.

Bryan: 25:50 And for a lot of athletes it can take a while to bounce back from a disappointing loss. But I work a lot with wrestlers and a lot of times they'll have tournaments where they have four to five matches per day and they could have a couple of days of that and they only have a few hours in between each match. So when someone is in like a tournament setting where they have to bounce back quickly, what are some strategies that they can use to be able to let go of the match? They just lost? Or the game, they just lost and come back ready for the next match or game.

Barrymore: 26:30 Definitely. And, and so to work with that and G again, like a quick how, I'm not sure how long, you know you have between between those matches, but a quick, Hey man, this sucks. Right? acknowledging wherever you're at, I think it's useful and taking a few breaths, you know, processing it and then kind of shifting your focus towards, okay, what, what can I do for next, my next match. And I, and I think being able to have the perspective, you know, what you've probably heard a lot of. Okay. Even though I'm O in one, right? Let's just say I lost the first match in the second match. Being able to bring it back and say, I'm, Oh, only, no, I'm, Oh, no, every single time, what do I need to do next? Is, is huge because otherwise if we're, how do I put it?

Barrymore: 27:21 Like a, coming from mentally like that we're at a deficit that doesn't, that doesn't feel good usually. But if we say, Hey, I'm, Oh, no, all I can do now is control what's next. That's really, really important. So getting back present, right? You can, you can do that mentally through, you know, cognitively. And I think having some sort of right routine, maybe it's breathing for five minutes or two minutes even, right? Just taking, taking breasts, being mindful of your breath taking that time to take a step back and then some sort of mental cue, right? So saying to yourself, all right, all I control is all I can control is what's next. Who do I want to be? You know, on the, on the wrestling floor right now and maybe we have, right, if I was working with this athlete, a three part kind of identity of what we want to bring, intensity, aggressiveness constantly moving, right? Those three things, like it's nice to have something to come back to, to focus on that is motivating in and task oriented. So that we come back. So maybe that's that, that last thing you do before you get ready for your next match.

Bryan: 28:36 And then you and I have talked about this a little bit off air, but we talked about how a kids specialize in a sport pretty early on nowadays. And [inaudible] when they specialize that early, it kind of becomes a part of them. Like that's what they know. And so when they come to having an injury of some sort that could potentially be career ending or even take them out for a year it can really put a number on their spirits and them because it's like they lost part of themselves. So how do you walk through injuries and especially when it's so ingrained in someone that this is part of who they are.

Barrymore: 29:20 Yeah. Injuries are so, so hard for, for an athlete and coping with them is very, very difficult. And you know, just imagine, right? You're, you're playing a sport playing an instrument, right? For, let's say 20 straight years of your life and you're putting all this time and energy in it and everyone, you know, sees you as right. The gymnast or the French horn player or the soccer player. And that's really what you see yourself as and you, and you think you're going to go the next step and the next step and you professional and realize your dreams and then you tear your, your ACL, right? And just put yourself in that, in that position there. And man, like what, what would go through your head and your mind. And a lot of times it's like, Oh my gosh, right? I'm ruined.

Barrymore: 30:08 You know, maybe some exploiters they're like, this is the worst. How am I ever going to come back from it? Right? There's this automatic shock. And you know, many athletes might not know themselves so much outside of sport. So it's a, it's a big, big blow just immediately. And then to make matters worse, right? Let's say eight months down the road, the doctors says initially it's going to take eight months. You realize, Hey, it's not progressing nicely. Now it's going to be another four months. And it's like, Oh my gosh, you know, how do you stay motivated? And your spot might be taken, right? Someone, let's say you're, you're, you're playing football, someone immediately steps in right to where you were in your position and we'll start playing. So there's that piece to kind of cope with psychologically. And maybe the coaches are giving less attention to the injured athlete or the athlete might start to feel like less, less of a team less part of the team.

Barrymore: 31:06 And let's say that athlete, you know, socially connects mostly on the team, then there's another element there where they might feel alone and disconnected. And so that's a lot, a lot of different ways that it can impact us psychologically. And so starting there is, is the key like processing what happened, what does this mean to you? How is it affecting you? I think is the, the best kind of first step in terms of working with something like that. Cause again, right, if I go with like, Hey, well there's lots of positive aspects of injury, that's like, you know, that's like telling a depressed person, Hey, just, just be positive and everything's going to be okay. It's just right. It's not workable. And it's not validating. And so exploring it for a little bit and then being able to ideally move towards, okay how do I, who am I outside of sport, right?

Barrymore: 32:02 We start to learn that if we're injured for a extended period of time, so you do get this opportunity to explore other aspects of our identity. Connect socially, maybe with people who are outside of our sport practice mental skills, right? That's a big one. You can actually have time to, you know, practice them. And in a big one that I see that happens is, is remembering why you started playing right? Like, cause you can't, you, you can't necessarily play at that time. And it, it really can increase motivation a lot in terms of, Oh, Mike, I just want to get out, right? Remembering when we were a kid and playing and how fun it was. And so it can, it can help increase motivation as well. So getting to those positive aspects later on, it can, can be helpful in terms of, in terms of working through it, there's a lot of especially at colleges like athlete groups, injured athlete groups, which can be helpful to realize you're not the only one. And, and there's other people going through this and hearing how they're coping with it can be really, really helpful.

Bryan: 33:05 Yeah. The initial reaction after an injury definitely can, it can be extreme. It kind of reminds me of the Seahawks player. I forget which one it was last year that they got hurt on their first day back. And as they're getting carted off the field, they flip off the coach and that was their reaction. Oh yeah. Yep. That's right Thomas. And it's, yeah, cause at that moment, you know you're going to get replaced. And then on top of that [inaudible] not only do you have the, the time that it takes to recover from the injury, but then you also have the time that it takes to get back to, you know, first string. If you ever get back to first string because you have to be better than the people that are starting now. So it's a long recovery process and there's a lot that goes into it. And then of course at that level two, that is their career. That's their lifestyle. That's the only way they make money.

Barrymore: 34:01 Exactly. Yeah. And that's why I think you see a lot of those, you know, knee jerk reactions when, when, you know, athletes are injured that, you know, to the outside, look, why would they ever do that? But you know, if we put ourselves in that shoes and have a little empathy yeah, I mean, gosh, it's like a shattering your whole worldview in a way. Sometimes dreams. And that sucks. That's hard.

Bryan: 34:26 Yup. Well, it's kind of like if you're working at you know, a corporation or anything and then all of a sudden they fire you and you're replaced the next day, you're going to be pretty pissed off about that too. You know, it's like you're nothing to them. They can replace you tomorrow. And that's exactly the same thing. And the athletics situation too.

Barrymore: 34:46 [Inaudible] [inaudible] Exactly.

Bryan: 34:47 So let's talk about parents' investment in their child playing sports because yeah, a lot of times it seems like there's always at least that one parent that is more interested in the sport than their child is and it's like they're pushing really hard for their child to be successful and it kinda takes the fun away from the kid. So how do you communicate with kids too? Play the sport for themselves and not just where the accomplishments and expectations that their parents have for them?

Barrymore: 35:23 [Inaudible] That's a, that's a really good question. And, and it's hard because I think kids, you know, growing up generally, right? We want our parents to be proud and, and we don't want to disappoint them. And that creates a lot of right. Pressure and expectation. And even if a parent doesn't directly right, say something or not, not in super overly involved, there might be these kind of signs that the kid picks up on, right? Kids are perceptive and feel that pressure. So how do you separate from that? You know, if I'm, if I'm working with a, you know, a student athlete, getting, getting them to talk about and explore their own right feelings and love for the game so that we're, we're focusing more on the intrinsic motivation first is important and can help make a shift. But also talking out loud about, you know, what's it like on the field when your parents are doing this or what, what do they want for you?

Barrymore: 36:19 Right. So I'm exploring that in the, in the key there is not like telling them what they should be thinking or feeling or giving advice, but just reflecting back what they're saying about their right parent's perceptions and certain behaviors. Because it's almost like I'm holding up a mirror to the, to the student athlete so that ideally, right, they can see this in the mirror and realize, Hey, my perceptions are different from my parents. How can I take some of that autonomy away? And the other piece that, that is big, I remember that. So the university of Washington woman's soccer coach, I think she must've just stepped down recently, but she was the coach for like 20 something years. Leslie Gallagher is her name. And when I was at UDaB, she was giving this talk about failure and, and she was saying how she had this promising career, you know, going towards, I think it was law maybe, but what she really wanted to do was, was become a soccer coach like that.

Barrymore: 37:22 That's where her passion lied. And she was really worried about disappointing her parents because, you know, stable career was this law direction, soccer, not sure if that would work out right. And she was talking to a therapist, ironically at the time who said like, and this always stuck with me. Like ultimately if you, if you are happy and it shows in who you are and what you're doing, the parents are gonna jump on board. And that always stuck with me in terms of, you know, for a young athlete, you know, how, how do you get that intrinsic motivation do the things the way, right. You want to do, you know, in your sport. And I ideally parents are gonna jump jump right on when they see that even if that means, let's say they don't want to play their sport in the mall anymore, if that's what truly is going to make the kid happen, you know, ideally, right? The parents gonna jump on board. But, but it's tough. It is tough because there is all those pressures from, from parents spoken and unspoken for these young, young athletes.

Bryan: 38:25 Well, let's start wrapping things up. You already gave a couple of examples of different ways that athletes can start working through different mental, but can you give

Barrymore: 38:36 Us a couple more examples? Yeah, totally. So yeah, routines take many, many different shapes and forms because you could do a mental routine, a longer one, right before a performance or before a free-throw even write a specific thing or in response to a mess up, right? To get you back on track to get you back present. And so let's say basketball, you're, you're taking a free throw. It's important to incorporate like mental and, and physical aspects within to the routine. So one might be, you know, after working with the athlete and figuring out what works best for them, okay, we dribble three times, we take a breath, right? One a deep breath and we would practice that together. And then there's some sort of mental cue or self-talk. Let's say nice and smooth, right? Let's say that's like the emotion that, that we want for the free throat.

Barrymore: 39:35 And then, you know, and then they go for it and shoot it. So right. We have physical, mental with, with the breadth and also the self-talk. And then you kind of go for it and self talks. Interesting cause you can use, right, a more feeling oriented self-talk. Like you got this or you're the, you know, you can do this, you know, encouraging type self talk or more task oriented, which would be like you know, in a way nice and smooth is both. But it could be elbow in, right? Would be a task oriented type cue and you've got to figure out what works best for the athlete that you're working with. Another type of routine might be, you know, of course in, in a batter's box, right? Or a baseball player going into the batter's box that you usually see a lot of these right, physical routines.

Barrymore: 40:25 But something there might be right on your, on your shoe in the soul around the little, I can't remember what it's called. The tongue, I think it's called, you flip it up and maybe you've written on there some little thing that helps motivate you. So F F,F , you know, family, friends focus or, or family and focus or something like that. And so that kinda brings you in the moment you've taken the crowd. Let's say you write, you do a little circle you pick up the bat, three practice swings, visualize the next pitch. That could be right. That could be kind of your, your routine a pregame routine, right? Maybe you spend, once you do your lay up line right in, in, in basketball for example, or tennis, you're, you're hitting, hitting balls back and forth, then you go to your, you know, bench, you spend one minute breathing you remember why you like to play the game of, you know, X, Y, Z, and that's part of the, you know, mental rehearsal and then incorporate some sort of physical cue.

Barrymore: 41:29 So you've jumped three times. I know the Bron you see, right. Or at least he used to clap the that white stuff, chalk, you know, on his hands. And then you, and then the last thing you might do, focus on what you want to bring to the game that day. You know, intensity focused being a beast on the boards, let's say. If it was basketball. So there's so many different ways that you can incorporate a routine. I know I read this one article about Michael Phelps, S, you know, S Olympic swimmer and the night before matches, sometimes he would, he would black out his goggles, right? And just lay there and imagine all the different types of ways, right? If something went wrong on a turn, how would he, how would he get back into the position that he needs to be? So imagery can play a big, big part in a routine as well.

Bryan: 42:23 Awesome. Well those are great different types of routines. So thanks for sharing that. And then my final question for you is, do you have a morning routine? And if so, what is it?

Barrymore: 42:35 Do I have a morning routine? I would love to have a, a more well developed morning routine. So I would say right now, personally I'm, I'm still working through figuring out what's gonna work best for me, but the, the kind of routine, I guess I'd say I'm in the middle of developing. I'm going to be honest, it's not, it's not there yet. Is waking up around six, six, 15 getting out a yoga mat, doing stretch kind of few yoga stretches, 20 pushups, 20 sit-ups, right? So it's not like a big, it's not like a big exercise thing or anything like that. Then making some coffee, drinking the coffee showering and then going about right. Going about my day. So, eh, that's a really small and that's what I'm hoping to get to. I'm not there yet, but gosh, everything I've read, everything I have heard and what I want to do is develop that morning routine. So not there yet though.

Bryan: 43:40 Do you do any like mental preparations as well?

Barrymore: 43:44 Mental prep for me that's, and maybe I, maybe I've got to switch it to my morning routine, but that's something I do at night. Is, is right before, you know, I'm laying in bed. What I try and do is take stock of the day. What are the moments that right brought me joy, right. Life-Giving moment moments per se. What are the ones that weren't so good? And then what can I do? What do I want to do to be better the next day? And it's not even that I always think of the, the right thing that I want to do better. It's just the idea of committing to wanting to be better the next day. Sometimes I include some sort of like gratefulness, what are the top things that I'm grateful for, but for me it helps kinda center myself a little bit before I, before I go to bed.

Bryan: 44:35 Awesome. Well, Barry Moore, where can people find you?

Barrymore: 44:39 So best way to find me my website. So it's www dot Barry Moore Rosellini Sidey, which is P S Y d.com. And you know, that has a little bit more about me and my private practice and probably the best way to yeah, find me, reach me, contact me would, would be through, through my website [inaudible]

Bryan: 45:00 And for the private practice, is that all in person or do you do it online as well?

Barrymore: 45:05 That is, that is in person. Every in-person, sorry, every once in awhile do kind of a phone console or things like that. But, but in person generally.

Bryan: 45:14 Awesome. Well thank you so much Barry Maher for coming onto the show. We appreciate it and I just, I'm so fascinated by the world of sports psychology and there's so much more we can dive into, but we'll have to do that another time.

Barrymore: 45:27 Totally. Thanks so much for your time. This was awesome.

Bryan: 45:29 How the human brain and mind works is something that has been fascinating me more and more in this episode only touches on a couple of things that can be a distraction for people. When you start looking at your own life, just think of all the little things that influence how you perceive each day. Maybe your kids did something that threw you off or traffic was bad, getting to work or maybe you had one beer too many yesterday and it is causing you to not feel great today. We all have things we are dealing with and then we recognize it. Then we can change how we view our lives. We probably will understand that actions done by others as well. Again, I find all of this extremely fascinating and it just allows me to take a step back from things and look at it from a bird's eye view.

Bryan: 46:12 Did you know we have detailed show notes for every single episode. Includes timestamps of important moments in the show, links to any resources, full transcripts plus more. If you're like me and listen to podcasts while doing other things, then it can be hard to remember all the neat little details from an episode. So if you want a refresher from any episode that we've done, go to summit for wellness.com/the episode number two view that specific episode. So for this episode you can see all the show [email protected] slash 89 when I first started in this industry, I would give clients and extremely rigid and detailed plans of actions to help them achieve their health goals. But you know what I discovered most people failed at following the plan. Why is that? You ask, did the program suck while on paper the program was exactly the steps they needed to feel better, but the plan wasn't realistic enough for people to follow.

Bryan: 47:09 You can't go from the couch to a marathon over a night and it is better and more realistic to take baby steps and work on changing small habits one at a time and making sure they stick, which is exactly what we do in our health programs. Now we hope you to make a lasting habit changes that will make you feel better without falling off the bandwagon. So if you are tired of the yoyo diets and want to make lasting changes, visit summit for wellness.com/ready. Next episode we are going to focus on type two diabetes and strategies to navigate a complex disease. Let's go meet my guest, dr Nikki Steinberger. I am here with dr Nicky Steinberger. Hey Nikki. What is one unique thing about you that most people don't know?

Nicki: 47:55 In the early eighties, I followed the grateful dead for a couple of years and it was a very family feeling, bonded transformational experience.

Bryan: 48:13 I actually am not familiar with that. Can you talk a little bit more about what that is?

Nicki: 48:18 So the band, the grateful dead, which doesn't exist anymore. But back in the day the dead toured all over the country. And so we would have vans and cars going from the East coast to the West coast, staying multiple people in hotel rooms, you know, selling food at shows and tie dyed shirts and then going into the show, which was two, three hours and dancing our butts off. Taking some fun psychedelics and having a great old time.

Bryan: 49:03 That sounds like a great time. Wow. Well what will we be learning about in our interview together?

Nicki: 49:10 So we are going to dig into mindset in a fairly deep way and create that bridge between mindset and health mindset and type two diabetes. Take a look at how different mindsets can produce different results for folks so we can open up that idea and have choice.

Bryan: 49:38 And what are your favorite foods or nutrients that you think everyone should get more of in their diet?

Nicki: 49:44 So in no particular order and all organic, of course avocados. Hey four there. Mono unsaturated fats and fiber and satiety, organic blueberries, hi and antioxidants and low on the glycemic index, right? If we're going to eat fruit, they're lower in sugar raw pecans and walnuts for the, again, mono unsaturated and Omega three fatty acids and then bone broth to immunity

Bryan: 50:28 And reduce inflammation from those high quality amino acids. And what are your top three health tips for anyone who wants to improve their overall wellness?

Nicki: 50:40 Number one, recognize that stress reduction is needed in practices in a daily way. We have to really influence our Paris parasympathetic nervous system so that can look like a little bit of meditation, deep breathing, yoga, a walk in nature, a hot bath. Very, very important and often overlooked. Number two, we must move our body. We're not meant to be sedentary and this helps move the sugar from the blood into the cells and it helps with our musculoskeletal system are organs and our mood to keep us having a steady, loving mood. And the third is to surrender and get rid of processed food-like products, refined and processed sugars and carbohydrates.

Bryan: 51:51 Type two diabetes is becoming more prevalent, and it is predicted that one in two people will develop it. So if you want to avoid type two diabetes, listen to the next episode, but until then, keep climbing to the peak of your health.