87- Using Rock Climbing to Build Community and Mental Focus with Megan Fritz

Announcer: 00:01 Welcome to the summit for wellness podcast where we help you climb to the peak of your health and now here is your host, Bryan Carroll.

Bryan: 00:16 What's up everyone? I'm Bryan Carroll and I'm here to help people who have an injury or illness that holds them back from enjoying the outdoors, and today's episode is going to be a little bit different than normal. People who've known me for a long time know that I used to be a gym rat and I used to work out multiple times every single day, but over the years, the way I train has changed and evolved and I don't spend that much time in the gym anymore. Now, don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with working out at a gym. For many people, that's a great place to go and get a break from life, get some exercise and maybe socialize a little bit, then go off and enjoy the rest of their day, but you don't need a gym to work out. In fact, most of my clients no longer go to gyms.

Bryan: 01:01 They have setups at home that they actually use and don't just use their treadmill as a coat hanger and many of them do what I do and have a wide variety of types of workouts that they do like for me, I exercise at home or outside and sometimes I do body weight stuff. Other times I use weights or I'll go hiking or snowboarding or even rock climbing and rock climbing is exactly what we will be talking about today. My guest today is Megan Fritz who runs the organization never stop moving, which is focus on helping women achieve their rock climbing goals. While rock climbing is a physical activity, it also is a great way to build community connection and mental focus. But before we dive into this episode, this episode is brought to you by our friends at Garmin who just released the new Fenix 6 series, which is a top of the line outdoors watch that Garmin offers.

Bryan: 01:59 If you spend any time outdoors, you will want to check out this watch because it has maps preloaded onto it, plus a million different features for any outdoor activity. And if you ever see me, I always have the Fenix series on my wrist because I know it is durable enough to handle my lifestyle. So to learn more, go to summitforwellness.com/garmin now let's dive right into my conversation with Megan Fritz. Megan Fritz is a 29 year old motivated, enthusiastic, outgoing, honest Bostonian who loves to adventure outdoors, pushed through her fears and help others. She is transitioning from a career in mechanical engineering to a career in fitness and guiding. She runs her own company called it never stopped moving. And her goal is to create a platform where she can help women obtain their fitness and climbing goals through outdoor recreation and education in a team setting that fosters support, inclusivity and empowerment. Thank you so much for coming onto the show, Megan.

Megan: 03:00 No problem.

Bryan: 03:01 Well, Megan, I, I always want to discover more about my guests background. So I would love to dive into what your background is, why you went into the mechanical engineering route, and then why are you now coming back to the fitness and climbing world?

Megan: 03:19 So I grew up in Boston, mass in a small suburb and I was fortunate enough to, I always feel like I needed to go to college and get a bachelor's degree. And so I chose mechanical engineering because I really wanted to help people. And half a degree that can be really broad cause I wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do. And so I got that degree and I worked in the field for five years and throughout that time I really enjoyed what I was doing, but I didn't feel like I would be satisfied when I was, you know, 65 years old. Looking back on my career, I felt like there might've been something missing and something else that I wanted to do with my life. And my mom got sick recently and it kind of just portrayed that, you know, there's only one life that you live into really take advantage of any opportunities. And throughout my time as a mechanical engineer, I decided to start never stopped moving, which was my women's climbing company. And I chose to take a leap of faith in a risk and stop doing mechanical engineering for a while and see how I could integrate myself into the fitness and guiding industry.

Bryan: 04:47 And then what got you interested in climbing? Where are you doing that over in Boston? Or was it when you came over to Washington that you started climbing?

Megan: 04:55 So I started climbing in Boston during my freshman year in college and that really created an outlet for me to get outside of school and any stress that was occurring. And it allowed me to create friends and get outside. And then actually moving to Seattle. One of the reasons why I moved was because I looked at on a map and it was just surrounded by all these mountains and national parks and so many much wilderness that's much larger than the white mountains of New Hampshire, which is where I'm used to going. And so I really wanted to move somewhere that could allow me for that could give me more opportunities. And so I transitioned to Seattle and then broadened my climbing career once I moved here into trad climbing. And Alpine climbing.

Bryan: 05:45 And then can you talk a little bit about those different types of climbing so that people who aren't that familiar with climbing can kind of understand what, what it is you're talking about when you talk about trad in Alpine?

Megan: 05:55 Sure. So indoors is just climbing shorter, more difficult problems without the use of a rope. So the only equipment you need is climbing shoes and a chalk bag. Another type of climate is called sport climbing, where you use a rope and you climb taller walls. You need more equipment and [inaudible] relying on a partner to belay you and prevent you from falling and hitting the ground. And then there's the most purest form of climbing called trad climbing, where you're still climbing really tall walls. But instead of having pre placed anchor components in the wall, you actually are putting in your own inker components and then removing them so you're not leaving a trace on the rock.

Bryan: 06:41 And then where does Alpine climbing fall into all that?

Megan: 06:44 So Alpine climbing is generally, I'm focused on trad climbing with a really long approach. So you kind of do a long hike and then you do some trad climbing and then you'd do a long hike back out.

Bryan: 06:56 So what type of people can get into rock climbing? Is it only for like really strong people or super athletic people are, can really anyone do it?

Megan: 07:06 Yeah. Rock climbing is one of the few sports that it doesn't matter. What your ages or your gender, your shape, size, strength that anyone can just pick it up and have fun, which makes it a very unique sport. It's really easy to get into. Climbing is really based off of the technique that you use instead of your pure strength. And so regardless of your physical fitness background, you're able to just walk into a gym and get on the wall, see how high you can get.

Bryan: 07:38 I have to say when you see people that all they do is lift in a gym, try to get onto a wall, it's actually pretty entertaining cause they fatigue out really quick because they were trying to use all their upper body typically. And then they just wear themselves out.

Megan: 07:51 Yeah. That's one of the greatest things about climbing is that, you know, especially being female too, is you'll go into the gym and see all these strong men like trying to climb with their upper body and then you see these also strong women, but other women just using so much grace and technique and style and achieving the same goal. So that's pretty cool. But you know, you don't have to be big and muscular to climb. Okay. But you can, you know, it doesn't matter. It's really just maximizing the strength to weight ratio and I'm learning how to move your body too. Help yourself get to the top of the wall and the most efficient as possible.

Bryan: 08:32 Can you talk a little bit more about the technique for climbing? Like how is it that you can climb a big wall without having to use too much strength? What are some of the key technique pieces that people should know?

Megan: 08:44 Yeah. so the goal of climbing is generally to use as much as your skeletal system instead of your muscular system. And so there are different ways that you can do that. The main one is keeping your arms straight because any time your arms are bent, you're using your biceps in different our muscles to hold you onto the wall. But you can keep your arms straight. The majority of your time with your hips in, you're actually transitioning all that load onto your skeletal system so you're not getting fatigued as much. Another technique that you can use is using your toes and your feet more so than your arms. A lot of new climbers will just try to reach up as high as possible and pull those themselves up. And you'll see more advanced climbers are constantly looking down at your feet, putting their feet up as high as possible, and then pushing up with our legs instead because our legs are larger and muscles. It takes less effort to use them than to use our muscles.

Bryan: 09:41 So is it more important to be close to the wall when you're climbing? Or can you kind of be off the wall a little bit? Especially as you're trying to look for, you know, different holds and whatnot.

Megan: 09:53 Yeah. So the key is to get your hips in as close to the wall as possible so your arms can be straight so that you can lean out from the wall, kind of assessory are going to go, but you want to keep your hips in to keep your center of gravity directly over your feet so that you're not making your arms tired. So if they're like butts hanging off the wall, right? Like that's kind of a lot of weight to be like holding onto you with your arms, but you can keep it in right over your feet. Then it won't be as hard to keep yourself onto the wall.

Bryan: 10:21 What are some physical requirements that are needed to start climbing? Like what's the bare minimum that people should be at to be able to get onto a wall?

Megan: 10:29 I mean, honestly, as long as you're approved by your doctor to be able to climb, anyone can really do it. If you have knee problems and you don't want to land directly onto a mat really hard, you can also, you can jump on a ropes instead. So that way you're landing on the rope, which has a dynamic what's, we'll take in some of the impact instead of your knees. But for the most part, I mean anyone that wants to climb can, as long as you know what your limitations are in terms of strength, finger strength, flexibility, and as long as you know how to land properly, if you're bouldering. And that's what's so cool about climbing is that you can just walk off the street and jump on the wall and get to the top [inaudible] then as you continue your climbing career, you kind of learn how to do that more effectively, more efficiently and more gracefully, et cetera.

Bryan: 11:21 And is it better to start in like a rock gym that's a little bit more regulated and you have like the different gradings of the routes or is it better to go actually onto some real rock or some real boulders?

Megan: 11:34 Yeah, I mean, I think that you can learn indoors or outdoors. Most people do learn indoors because it's easier to access and because there's so many other people that go, but a lot of their friends will kind of bring them around. But there's no reason to say why you can't go outdoors and start climbing as well. You just want to make sure that going with people who know what they're doing and that you're aware of how to minimize risks of injury beforehand. But if you're brand new to climbing, then I would recommend going to a gym just so that you can meet other climbers, take some classes and get comfortable falling and being up high and being familiar with how your body moves. Because I think you learn a lot about body self awareness and it's a lot easier to learn those things quicker in a gym environment than it is outside.

Bryan: 12:25 And since you mentioned the falling a couple of times that kind of leads us into the mental focus and concentration side a little bit. So can you talk about how ah, climbing can impact someone's just mental fortitude and their ability to stay focused and also be open to, you know, some adrenaline rushes, like what you go through when you do fall?

Megan: 12:48 Yeah. you know, climbing is not just physical, it's a lot of mental as you state. And that comes in a lot of different forms. A lot of people are scared of different things. Some people are scared of the act of falling. Some people are scared of potentially falling of Heights. Some people are nervous backward in themselves. And that risk, some people are afraid of the unknown. Like what happens if I do fall? I don't know. And so I think it's just really important too, look inward to yourself and analyze yourself as to what you know, mental drawbacks you're having and what's making you nervous so that you can work on those things. So that if you're afraid of falling, you know, maybe step one foot off the ground and take and jump down and then step two feet off the ground and jumped down and kind of keep pushing that boundary but slowly into your own pace so that you can work through it.

Megan: 13:44 So there's lots of different reasons why, you know, mentally it can kind of prevent you from climbing well above your own ability. I know that a lot of people are afraid of taking lead falls and that's when you have clipped into the wall, you've climbed up above your last piece of protection and then you fall. So a lot of people fall about 10 feet or so. And that can be scary, right? Because you don't know, am I going to hit something? Because my ballet are gonna catch me. You know, like there's a lot of unknowns. And so being able to work through that in a way that makes you feel confident about what you're doing can be really hard. And you know, I was working with someone who was scared of leading and at the very beginning you constantly hear them say down to you as the Blair, like you have me, or like watch me or okay, I'm going to go for it.

Megan: 14:38 Or I don't know, what do you think? You know, they ask all these questions and they're really not asking you. It's like, yes, I have you, I'm looking at you. Like, you know, they're not doubting your abilities. They're just reassuring themselves. And eventually as you get more and more into your climbing career, you start to trust those outside. What's the word? Okay. Like those outside variables so that you don't keep asking those questions. You eventually begin to trust your belayer and know that they're going to catch you regardless, you know so that you really can just focus on the climate and not focusing and all these other things that are distracting, distracting you mentally and causing you to be nervous. And with that, like a lot of people, you know, choose their type of climbing because the more risk there is, the more focused you can become.

Megan: 15:35 And so I noticed that when I'm top roping just, I'm not lead climbing, I'm just climbing on a rope that's already attached to the anchor and there's really no risk of injury or falling or anything like that that I climbed very sloppily. But when I go to lead climbing, I'm definitely more in tune with the movements that I'm making and more precise and I'm more careful because I know that there's a higher risk and and even more so for a trad climbing, you know, it kinda just keeps pushing the boundaries. And so you can kind of see how people are looking for that mental focus and concentration in their climbing and how as you progressed, that continues to grow and get sharper and sharper. Okay. So I have to ask do falls while lead climbing ever get better? Because every time I do it, it always sucks.

Megan: 16:25 They do. So I struggled with lead climbing for pretty much my entire climbing career, you know, in people. And I've been enough, I'm afraid of Heights. Like I am like if you put me on a ledge that I have to walk on that's like a foot wide, I will freak out, you know? But if I'm like physically like touching things with my hands and my feet, like I'm quote unquote climbing that, I'm like, okay. It's very bizarre. And so I used to be very scared of falling as well. And what I did is I would go to the gym and go to a high wall and I would always clip and keep going to the fifth bolt and then I would climb above that bowl and then let go and take a fall. And then I'll go back, clip that one, go up to the next one, take a fall.

Megan: 17:11 And I would just keep taking falls over and over and over again. Indoors to just train my brain that it was safe and okay to fall in that environment and that my belayer is going to catch me right. And it actually becomes fun. Like if you fall correctly in your Blair catches you properly, it's fun, it's not scary anymore. And then it, the trick is applying it from an indoor setting to an outdoor setting because there are less variables and outside environmental factors that can affect your [inaudible] mental head game between indoors and outdoors and so outdoors, if you're climbing easier problems, then there's less chance you're going to fall because the climbing is easy. But if you do fall, there's a higher risk for injury because it's more blocky and there's more things to hit. So it's, it's kind of like the easier climbs or easier, mentally more difficult, I mean, easier physically, more difficult mentally. And then as the climate gets harder, declining is harder physically, but it's easier mentally because it's all overhanging, so you're not going to hit anything. And so I think it's really important just to falls are the scary falls are the ones that you're not comfortable with taking. And so just to practice those types of falls in a controlled environment and in a certain way in which you become more and more comfortable taking them, that will make it less scary. But it does, it does become fun. You just have to work on it, you know?

Bryan: 18:41 Yeah. And that's, that's the hardest part is to force yourself to take some falls. It definitely, yeah. It's kind of kind of a mind screw a little bit when you first do it.

Megan: 18:50 Yeah. I mean you can practice by just pushing off the wall. So not even taking falls, literally just pushing your body off and coming back into it because then you're training your brain how to come into the wall safely. Like this is my landing, this is what's going to feel like. And then once you feel comfortable with that, then you can, you know, take one step up and just have some Slack in the system. Take two steps up. You know, you don't have to immediately go from being terrified of falling to like taking a really, really, really big fall that's gonna like make you shaking. You know, it's like you want to baby step and work your way up to it because you want to have fun the whole time. You don't want to be terrified.

Bryan: 19:26 Yeah. And there was a sentence you said earlier that I really liked to where you were saying that when you lead climb and the risk is higher, then you're a lot more focused and you're way more calculated with where you're putting your hands and your feet and trying not to fall compared to where you are following or you're top roping and you can kind of scramble up and not worry so much about it. And I definitely noticed that with my own self too, when I'm leading. Then every day, every move I make is extremely calculated. And when I'm following behind someone then I can kind of scramble a lot faster and catch up to him. And then I always joke with them about how long it took them and how quick I was able to do it. But like you said, the risk is different. So it's definitely fascinating how focused you can get when the risk level changes.

Megan: 20:19 Yeah, for sure. That's awesome that you've experienced that as well. I think it's good to like think about those situations. I now, whenever I do talk or open, I don't have that whisk. I try to climb at that same mental focus and concentration as if the risk was there.

Bryan: 20:36 Yeah, that's, that's really good. So in, in a lot of cases when you're using rope, pretty much every case when you're using a rope you have some kind, a level of trust with a partner or a bilayer or whoever it is. So can you talk about just that relationship of putting your trust into someone else's hands? And the kind of letting go of some things and focusing on what you need to focus and let them focus on what they need to focus on?

Megan: 21:05 Yeah. I think that, you know, you know, belaying is the act of catching your climber when they let go of the wall. And I think that that commitment to be a bilayer is underrated in the community because if you don't trust your belayer and you don't feel that their intention is 100% on you and that they have you, it can really mess with your climbing in your head. And I think it's really, really important to find someone who motivates you. Well, we'll be there for you. We'll take it,

Megan: 21:41 You know, we'll sit with you hanging on the road for as long as you need. And we'll be really attentive to you because a belayer and a climber is really a pair and you really are a team working together. If a climber falls and gets a really, really hard take it's going to hurt the fall's not going to be fun. But if you're a Bellairs watching and being prepared, then it's going to be an okay fall and it will be fun. And so your partner is really, I'm going to give you the outcome if, if climbing is fun or not on that special client, you know. And so it's good to be really picky with your partners and who you're climbing with and who you're trusting. And so like we talked about before, when you find a new partner, it's really good to just kind of take your time and really build up that trust with them.

Megan: 22:34 So that you can not be asking them questions and you're not being, you're not worrying about them, you're just focused. I remember that. I mean, even with my husband, you know, we would climb together and I was notice I had self-reflected I noticed that I was constantly the looking down at him when I was climbing. So I was supposed to be climbing to the top, but I'm just constantly looking down at him [inaudible] checking and making sure that he's paying attention and that his hands on the brake strain and that he has me and I realize I'm putting all this mental focus into something that I can't even control and that he's controlling instead of focusing on what I'm supposed to be focused on, which is climbing and doing that well. And so it took me some time to realize that I was doing that and then I had to acknowledge that and work through my trust with him until I got to a point where I realized that like on this client that I wasn't thinking about him at all, that I wasn't thinking about my belayer in any shape or form.

Megan: 23:36 And that I was really just focusing on what I was doing. And I think that's the coolest shift from having a new bilayer to climbing a new ballet and a new partner is to realize that you just trust them 100% and that you're going to focus on the task at hand. And that, you know, ties into the mental focus and concentration as well. And I know a lot of like businesses or teams, they'll, they'll take people out to [inaudible] climbing gyms or you know, services like what you offer and whatnot as well where they'll do team building events on rock walls and you have to, you know, trust your teammates or the people that you work with and kind of with your life to be up on the wall and to make sure that, you know, they catch you if you do fall and whatnot.

Megan: 24:25 So it definitely creates a very tight partnership when you have someone that you can trust, do catch you when you do fall. Yeah. I think that partnership has to be earned and it just comes with time and practice. And I think it's good to open yourself to about other partners, but and just be patient with one another and work through it and make sure, because you really are putting your life and your safety in their hands and it's not something to mess around with, you know, want to be safe when you're, when you're doing this. So can you share a couple of stories of people's experiences as a get into climbing? Yeah, I mean because never stop moving is focused on self identity, finding females and allowing them to get into the climbing community. I have heard a couple of stories from them as to how they, you know, first came into the climbing community in one was kind of interesting.

Megan: 25:27 She what? Into the climbing gym, a bouldering only gym and was just super intimidated. Because the gym was so busy and there were so many people there and everyone looks awesome, you know, flying around, jumping down, trying really hard and I think it can be really intimidated. And she immediately decided this is not for me, that I do not want to climb. And I think it's like any other type of gym. You just got to try different times of the day, different groups of people, different gyms, different areas, and kind of find one that fits for that fits you and your personality. It has similar people to you because climbing really is a community sport and there really is a community in that. And it just finding one that works for you, you know, you're not going to fine. You're not going to like every single gym that you go into like a normal gym.

Megan: 26:20 And the same is going to be for climbing. And so another way to battle that is if you're hesitant about going climbing or you don't you're worried to go in there because you're like, Oh, I'm just going to fall. I'm going to look horrible. Everyone's gonna be better than me. It's just like find a friend, find a group, a club that meets up at the gym and people at the front desk and help you with that because I think that provides lot of support in comradery and well make you like that entrance into the climbing world a lot better.

Bryan: 26:54 And then if someone does want us to get started, what are some steps that they can take to enter the climbing world?

Megan: 27:00 Yeah, so because we talked about the fact that like, no matter who you are, what size you are, shape, color, gender, whatever, it doesn't matter. Like you can just go into a gym and start climbing. I know that can be a lot of like intimidating for a lot of people. So there are definitely clubs and women's nights and other groups. I know that there was a ton of Facebook groups such as [inaudible], the Washington women crowd, climbers, sisters and action sports, Seattle, queer climbers, Seattle rock climbers, climbers of color, Alpenglow collective. And of course, never stop moving. We have our own training for climbing club which is focused to bring women into the gym in a safe environment where they can not just climb with one another, but to become friends and support one another and push each other to become better climbers until you learn how to use the wall in the gym to become a better climber and no safe space.

Megan: 28:00 And so there's all these different groups that you can join up. I know meetup is a very popular one where you can meet different people to climb outside with. There are classes at the climbing gyms that you can take like intro to bouldering classes or technique classes. And then if you're looking to go outside, there's a lot of intro to rock climbing courses with different guiding companies. Some of those groups I mentioned also have outdoor climbing trips. I never stopped moving. We have climbing trips once a month, at least two different climbing areas around Washington. For you to get outside, even if you are brand new to the sport. We could also go to exit 38 every other week on Tuesdays. So there's lots of opportunities within never stop moving in and other organizations to get outside and to meet people. I think it's just networking, asking the people at your gym. I mean it really is a great community filled with a lot, a lot of nice people. It just taking the steps to, to find those people.

Bryan: 29:06 Awesome. Well, are there any last things you want to talk about when it comes to climbing in general and how it can benefit people to at start climbing?

Megan: 29:16 Yeah. I mean, when I first started climbing I said that I did it in my freshman year of college and I think it's really helped my college career. I know that life can be really stressful and there's always, you know balls being funny, curve balls being thrown at you and climbing can provide a way to be an outlet that, because when you're on the wall, think about how many times you're thinking about something else. Like when you're physically on the wall, you were always just concentrated on their next move or what you're doing in that moment. And there's really no room to think about anything else. And so it can be a safe space to go to get away from anything else that's happening in a productive way. And so, you know, climbing has been that for me. And it always has been.

Megan: 30:07 I started when I was 18 and I'm 29 and I haven't stopped and I don't think I ever will. It's also a great way to, you know, I never knew how to use the gym like a normal gym. Like there's all these machines, I don't know what they do. And then even worse is all these exercise equipment that's on its own with no sign telling me what to do. I'm like, I don't know what to do with these. And so climbing was a way for me to get into the fitness world, into really feel confident about myself because it was fun and it was a way to be in shape, but also have fun and use your mind. It's a lot of problem solving, bouldering, especially of like figuring out the moves and the techniques and what you need to do to get to the top.

Megan: 30:51 And so it really is mentally and physically challenging and I think it's a great entrance in a way to get in shape besides going to a normal fitness gym. Okay. In addition to that, I mean, there's so many things I could just keep going on. In addition to that, like, it's helped me, like we talked about gain trust and I'm with other people and rely on them and their expertise and their abilities and to believe in myself and what I'm capable of doing. Am, you know, I said a year ago that I'm never going to learn trad. I'm never going to do track. That's crazy. I'm never gonna do it. That's terrifying. And now it's my favorite thing to do ever. And so I think that climbing really, there's always opportunities to grow and to push yourself and to challenge yourself and to find something new about yourself that other sports may not be able to do in the same way. Yeah. So yeah.

Bryan: 31:50 And then tell us a little bit more about never stop moving. What all do you do there? I know you're working on getting your nonprofit classification as well. So can you talk to us about what's going on there?

Megan: 32:03 Sure. so not a never stop moving started as a group of women that would meet at the climbing gym twice a week and we would just follow a training program. I've really wanted to connect with other women to get better at climbing into, improve my climbing, but to do that with my peers. And so that's when it started out as, and it just kind of took off. I think it was a really great way to inspire and to motivate other women to learn how to use the tools at their gym to become better at the sport that they like in a supportive and inclusive environment. Incense we started in January, 2016 so since then we go on outdoor climbing trips with 10 to 12 ladies once a month, which is awesome. So they can practice other skills that they're putting, that they're using at the gym in all of the training that they're doing. They get to actually use outside. I also am just starting climbing courses. So if you're interested in learning about sport climbing or just getting into outdoor climbing we have an anchors course and a repelling course and I'll be building out even more curriculum in the future, but I really want to give back

Megan: 33:24 And help women learn the skills that they need in order to climb outside safely and effectively and to constantly keep pushing themselves like I'm climbing has given to me.

Bryan: 33:37 Awesome. So people can find [email protected]. You're also on Facebook and Instagram also at never stopped moving. Thank you Megan so much for coming on and teaching us about climbing and what it, some for you and what it's done for women that you've worked with and how it can benefit someone's physical and mental [inaudible] capabilities. So thank you so much.

Bryan: 34:01 You're welcome. If you are a female who is looking to get into rock climbing, then definitely check out and never stop moving to see if they can help get you started. We have partnered with them, so if you join their membership, you'll see some of the benefits we offer to their members. Do you feel like your body is off or you feel like you could have more energy and perform at a higher level? If so, we can help you. Our health programs are designed to help you make lasting changes to your health by looking for the root causes to your issues. We help you to create actionable habit changing steps that will make your changes stick for the rest of your life. So if you are ready to make a change, then go to the summit for wellness.com/ready next week. I have one of my favorite mentors back on the show to talk about sports performance and recovery. So let's hear a little bit from Lenny.

Bryan: 34:55 I am here with Lenny [inaudible]. Hey Lenny, what is one unique thing about you that most people don't know?

Lenny: 35:01 I would say I am a by definition introvert. Even though I speak publicly and I have no problem communicating with people I spend more time alone than I do with people. So I would say a lot of people wouldn't guests that I'm an introvert.

Bryan: 35:23 It's definitely a common thing that people keep talking about that. So for some reason a lot of speakers are introverts and I don't know why.

Lenny: 35:31 I don't know. I just tend to, I've always been that way though. My mother said, when you're a little kid, you're always in the corner yourself and you can self amuse yourself. You never needed nobody to amuse you. So I've always been this way.

Bryan: 35:45 Well, what will we be learning about in our interview together?

Lenny: 35:49 Well, I think the big take home is what soft tissue hygiene means. How we can take care of our soft tissue complex, how we can take care of our movement system, what can we do on a day to day basis? The truth is the only way tissues change, the only way is with habits. So what habits can we apply on a day to day basis to have a healthy organism? So we touched upon that in our interview.

Bryan: 36:18 And what are your favorite foods or nutrients that you think everyone should get more of in their diet?

Lenny: 36:24 Oh, this is simple. Real food.

Bryan: 36:28 Yeah.

Lenny: 36:29 I mean everybody is different to say one food is better than another's. Ridiculous. but all you have to do is ask yourself, are you eating real food? You know, where the food came from and is it real or was it built in a laboratory? Simple.

Bryan: 36:49 And what are your top three health tips for anyone who wants to improve their overall wellness?

Lenny: 36:55 Well, I'll have to take from Dr. Stuart McGill the McGill code. There's three things. Take care of your joint complexes. I really think about that. If all of a sudden your hip goes, your knee goes, your ankle goes, it changes your life considerably. People know that about their big toe. How many people have come into me in the clinic? I should have never done my bun. Bunyan surgery. Yeah, the big toe was off. So take care of your joint complexes, which we talk about in the program. Take care of your plumbing. So right, do your cardio-respiratory training. Get things pumping through the bottom and the third thing, take care of your electrical. Take care of your brain, challenge your brain with movement. Read. Don't just do brain numbing things. Do things that are challenging. It's all three though. Oftentimes I see people doing their cardio-respiratory training, but that's all they do.

Lenny: 37:52 They don't take care of their electrical, they don't take care of their joint complexes. In fact, they do so much cardio-respiratory training, they wear out their joint complexes. So are you multi-dimensionally working your joint complexes? Are you taking care of your plumbing because you don't want to just wait, train, go in the gym and you know, move your joints or just play a sport. You also want to take care of your plumbing. And then are you taking care of your nervous system or your electrical? Those are the three categories. And I like to split that up throughout the week. No. Sometimes I'll do a little bit more cardio-respiratory some time, a little bit more challenge for my brain. I'm not just reading and challenging myself mentally like playing chess, but also physically like do my excursions for my joint with my eyes closed. You know, walking on a treadmill, doing my cardio respiratory training on my plumbing. Well, I'm turning my head right and left. You know, things like that. There's a lot of ways that we can do that, but I try to constantly challenge myself along those three categories.

Bryan: 38:55 Those gotta be the most unique categories that we've had to answer that question. So I love that you shared that with us. As always, Lenny packs his interview full of valuable information and the episode 12 with him from 2017 is still the most downloaded episode we've ever had. I can't wait to share next week's episode with you. So until then, keep climbing to the peak of your health.