163- Microdosing Plant Medicine: Safety and Legalities with Kayse Gehret

[00:00:15] Bryan Carroll: micro dosing, plant medicine. If you live on the west coast, I'm sure you've heard about this before. If you're in other parts of the country, this might be a new topic.

[00:00:24] Now, when people think of microdosing plant medicine or utilizing any type of psychedelic plant, you might be thinking of the hippie days where people are going on some magical journeys in their own minds. And that's not necessarily what we're doing with micro-dose. So in this episode, I have Kayse Garrett on the show and we'll be talking all about microdosing plant medicine.

[00:00:47] What's up everyone. I'm Bryan Carroll and I'm here to help people move more, eat well and be adventurous. And Kayse and I will be talking about kind of a taboo subject, which is plant medicine and psychedelic type medicines. And we're going to talk about some of the safety things that you want to keep in mind.

[00:01:06] Some of the new regulations that are coming out and legality changes that are happening. It seems like every single week things are changing with that and then how to just be safe. And if you do decide to go on any of these plant medicines, how to do it. Without harming yourself. And whenever it comes down to this stuff, it always comes down to safety first.

[00:01:29] So that's what we'll be talking about in this episode. And we also cover why would people even do this in the first place, if they're not going on any crazy magical trips, like back in the hippie era. So, Kayse Garrett is a founder of microdosing for healing, which is a nationwide virtual program, combining micro dosing education experience and a supportive committee.

[00:01:50] And the intention of the program is to introduce individuals to the beautiful practice of microdosing, inspire a lifelong connection to nature, and still a reverence and respect for sacred plant medicine and create the conditions for healing in a fun, welcoming, and supportive container. So let's go dive into my conversation with Kayse.

[00:02:12] Kayse. Thank you for coming onto the show. 

[00:02:14] Kayse Gehret: Thanks for having me happy to be. 

[00:02:17] Bryan Carroll: Of course, and I'm really excited to chat with you because we're going to talk about kind of a taboo topic and I'm very interested in some of the uses of it, which is micro-dosing. But before we start there, let's learn a little bit more about you, your background and what got you into all this in the first place.

[00:02:34] Yeah. 

[00:02:35] Kayse Gehret: Thank you so much. Happy to talk about this taboo subject with you and your audience. Yeah, I've been in the healing arts for coming up on 25 years now. So. I began shortly after I moved to California, about 25 years ago. And I started out studying somatic therapies, but my background is in body work.

[00:02:55] And then I went on to write books on the subject, develop a product line. And then in 2012 opened my first healing art studio and went on to create kind of a diversified healing arts studio, offering everything from bodywork massage to meditation, yoga sound healing. And then that medicine and that's how I was originally exposed to a plant medicine and the plant medicine work we do now.

[00:03:20] Bryan Carroll: And so what does plant medicine look like? What exactly is it? Is that using herbs? Is it using psychedelics? What is it? 

[00:03:28] Kayse Gehret: It's honestly, it's a very broad topic. Obviously, so plan and mushroom medicine. Can mean both medicinal mushrooms, meaning herbs and plants. But typically when people use the term microdosing today, it's in regard to psychedelics.

[00:03:44] Yes. 

[00:03:45] Bryan Carroll: And because that's the term micro dosing, I'm assuming that means small amounts. Is it actually amounts that you would notice a difference or what's the point of doing a little bit. 

[00:03:57] Kayse Gehret: Yeah, exactly. So part of what the micro-dosing I was drawn to micro-dosing because of its subtlety, it is sub perceptual.

[00:04:06] So it is while you're taking psychedelic or anthropogenic plant medicine, meaning psychoactive plant medicines, you're taking them at such a tiny dose that you're not feeling any of the psychoactive effects, so you're not tripping. You're not having any of the visual distortions hallucinations. And it's a way to receive all the benefits of plant medicines over time and in a much more gentle, subtle manner.

[00:04:34] Bryan Carroll: Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. So people that grew up in the sixties we're not going all out on some vision quests as they like to call it. So what, what's the point of microdosing then? 

[00:04:48] Kayse Gehret: The point of microdosing is to receive the same benefits that a large has we call the macro dose or a heroic dose journey.

[00:04:56] That people associate with the sixties. So I have a lot of people who come to practice who are brand new to plant medicines, you know, they're in the younger generations and they don't have any stigma they're coming in as a, as a fresh canvas. And then I have a lot of other people who live through the sixties and maybe they used psychoactive medications and medicines recreationally in the past, but this is their first time kind of coming to them for a therapeutic healing.

[00:05:21] Basis. So the reason people come now, it's, it's for all different, but they really do show amazing promise for physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual growth, all of the above. 

[00:05:36] Bryan Carroll: Interesting. So when you're taking them, are you experiencing life in a different way or are you just more open to life? 

[00:05:46] Kayse Gehret: I would say both, honestly, it's a practice.

[00:05:50] And I like to view them more as a spiritual supplement than a drug, you know, medicine and drug. It's a little bit complicated because we're so used to the framework of traditional pharmaceutical drugs. So plant medicine is very different. Microdosing is very different in that. It's not doing something to you.

[00:06:12] It's kind of clarifying who you already are. So it has amazing benefits physically that you read about when you read about microdosing and as well as the need of psilocybin research studies that are coming in showing enormous promise for depression, anxiety, PTSD. But they also have a great impact on developing your creativity, deepening your intuition helping you find your kind of true north, your inner voice.

[00:06:40] I'm helping you be more compassionate to be more patient. All of those things are equally, if not more transformative. 

[00:06:49] Bryan Carroll: Yeah. And with, you know, anxiety, depression, all those rates are skyrocketing, especially in the last couple years. Is this a safe method for people in those types of situations to possibly get some relief from anxiety and depression, or are there some things that you need to be worried about when doing to.

[00:07:10] Kayse Gehret: Yeah, that's a great question. So there's two parts to that. I would say, compared to pharmaceutical antidepressants, for example, there are men much, much, much less side effects when you're working with plant medicines. And when you're working with pharmaceutical medications in terms of they're they're, non-addictive, they're, non-habit forming there.

[00:07:32] Aren't a lot of side effects you have to worry about. You can begin plant medicines and stop using plant medicine. Without any ill effects, there's no kind of ramping up. There's no waning off. So you're not becoming dependent like you do on pharmaceutical medication. So in terms of safety on that respect they're far more safe in, in my opinion in terms of using them, I really think it's so important when you're just beginning practicing microdosing to have some support.

[00:08:04] Along the way, and that can be a therapist, a coach, a community. We see a lot of people doing it with a family member, your spouse, you know, your partner, because the effects are so subtle and they're really best for the best effects, it's their best to accomplish done alongside other practices in your life.

[00:08:24] So the more, when you're working with plant medicines, the more. You bring to your journey and your process, the greater, the effects that are going to be. 

[00:08:34] Bryan Carroll: So a lot of antidepressants, pretty much numb your feelings. If you're taking a plant medicines, is that opening you up more to your feelings and can that do kind of the opposite of what people would expect?

[00:08:52] So yet while they're depressed or anxious, 

[00:08:55] Kayse Gehret: you nailed it. Yes. That's exactly how they work. And that can take some getting used to, because it's such a shift in the way we view healing. Right. You know, for the longest time, healing has just been curtailing of symptoms rather than getting to the root cause of what's creating the symptoms in the first place.

[00:09:12] That's the essence of the healing that plant medicine 

[00:09:16] Bryan Carroll: does. So if you're taking it in your start feeling a little bit. Is there an addictive property do it. 

[00:09:24] Kayse Gehret: There is not a quote unquote addictive property in that year, becoming dependent on the substance. Typically what we find is, you know, when you feel better, you start making all different decisions, lifestyle, because you're coming from a different place.

[00:09:39] And so a lot of times people. You know, begin microdosing and then they're getting better sleep because they're going to bed earlier because they're eating less sugar. And then they fall asleep earlier. A lot of people would find themselves drinking last. They don't have a drinking problem. They wouldn't say it interferes with their life, but they just effortlessly find that they're just less interested in drinking alcohol, which then allows them to sleep better.

[00:10:03] So again, it's kind of getting to the root and once you feel better and more whole and more. Your entire life is affected and everything you do and where you put your energy day-to-day 

[00:10:15] Bryan Carroll: yeah, it's kind of like what you said earlier is micro-dosing combined with other healthy choices, healthy options, really.

[00:10:24] It makes a profound impact on people. So if it's opening you up to being more healthy, to moving more, to eating better, to getting better sleep, then it's, they're kind of working hand in hand. 

[00:10:37] Kayse Gehret: Yes, it's much more. I like to describe it. It's more a participatory relationship than it is a passive relationship.

[00:10:44] You know, most medications you're taking a dose, you're getting a prescription and you're waiting for something to happen to you when you're working with plant medicine, it's more an equal participatory relations. 

[00:10:58] Bryan Carroll: Now how many different types of plant medicines are used for micro-dosing? Is there like a set number or are we still learning more effects of different ones?

[00:11:07] Kayse Gehret: Totally. We're still learning. I mean, here in the United States when we were referred to microdosing, typically people are referring to either LSD or psilocybin, microdosing, mushroom microdosing. However, in indigenous traditions in south America, central America, they have a history of using a very wide variety of plant medicines traditions in a, they didn't call it microdosing.

[00:11:35] That's our coining of our modern corny and of a term that they have used for hundreds and hundreds of years. But in indigenous Trisha, they're called . So you're dieting with a different plant for. For different effects. So it might be Bob Insana. It might be Conna it might be tobacco. There's a wide variety of plant medicines.

[00:12:00] Bryan Carroll: Yeah. So when it comes to at the like silicide IBM, for instance, or there's differences in the purpose of each plant medicine, or do they all kind of do the same. Hmm. 

[00:12:12] Kayse Gehret: They're all unique. And that's what makes it so interesting. A lot of times I get asked if for people who are brand new and kind of a blank canvas, they're like, well, how do I know what medicines my medicine?

[00:12:23] I don't know anything about any of them. Part of it is intuitive, especially with the entheogenic medicines with our MTO theologians are natural medicine. So the cactus medicines like payoti or. What Shuma San Pedro psilocybin as a natural medicine. So they have their own, you know, innate wisdom and spirit.

[00:12:47] And it's funny, they'll kind of call to you when it's time, the medicines will kind of call to you and you'll keep reading about them or you'll keep running into people on there talking about them. And that's kind of them like dropping little, little crumbs in your, in your fate. To call you that's, that's how they found me.

[00:13:05] For sure. And a lot of people say that who come to our programs to that, it's just, their curiosity was peaked and there was something innate in them that just got curious. 

[00:13:16] Bryan Carroll: Can you talk a little bit about what the experience with siliciden might be like 

[00:13:22] Kayse Gehret: with microdosing specifically? Yeah. So it's really when microdosing with mushrooms, it's really, really gentle and subtle.

[00:13:31] I would say it for foremost. A lot of people come in, if you're brand new are very intimidated, they're like buy a large trip and the stigma of, you know, tripping on mushrooms. It's very, very different than that experience mushroom medicine, it's an, a microdosing context. The first thing people notice are cognitive benefits.

[00:13:52] Usually. So enhanced memory, clarity of thought, clarity of intention. You just kind of start to move through your day more clear and more focused. 

[00:14:03] Bryan Carroll: Okay. And you had mentioned that if someone was to start microdosing, that it's better to work with someone that's had experience. But how do you know that you're taking.

[00:14:15] A small enough dose or you don't overdo it your first time. Yeah, 

[00:14:20] Kayse Gehret: that's a great question. So the recommendation is to start very, very low and go very slow. So rather than the other way around, so. The microdosing range for psilocybin and medicinal mushrooms. For instance, it's usually between 50 milligrams and 300 milligrams.

[00:14:40] Everybody will be really unique in that range, but most people it's best to start very, very low and then give it a few weeks a month and then dial it up from there. And it's interesting. It's not based on body, weight, body size, you know, the things that. Measurements that Western pharma is typically made against.

[00:15:04] It tends to just be very, very unique made on the individual nature and spirit of the person that determines what their perfect doses. Hmm. 

[00:15:14] Bryan Carroll: And are you taking these, are you eating them? Are you smoking? What is. Normal way of doing 

[00:15:20] Kayse Gehret: them. It depends on, it depends on the medicine. I mean, mushrooms, the beauty of mushrooms is that their natural naturally occurring.

[00:15:29] They're quite easy to grow. And so growing your own over time is very, very simple. There's a, there's a learning curve at the beginning, like most things, but there are now kids who can buy 'em from cultivators have made it really easy and they're a lot of them are happy to share their skills. So that you can begin to grow your own medicines at home, which is beautiful.

[00:15:52] And then it's not only safe, you know, it's for your own personal use, you can grow a wide variety from medicinal mushrooms to psilocybin for your own personal use, depending on where you live in the country. And it's also really beautiful to grow your own medicines and develop a relationship similar to having your own garden.

[00:16:13] You know, it's a very different kind of eating food and making dinner with herbs and vegetables that you've grown in your backyard versus things you've bought at the store. And so it's, it's similar to micro-dosing in that manner too. It's, there's something very cool about, you know, growing your own medicines and being able to share them with, with family and friends.

[00:16:35] Bryan Carroll: Yeah. That was one of the questions I was going to ask. The legalities around it. It's not fully legal at this point, but there is states that are way more open to it. Like west coast is very open to these types of things. I'm assuming it's easier to find or grow in these states compared to other ones.

[00:16:52] Is there any state where it's actually like, 

[00:16:55] Kayse Gehret: Yes. Yes, there there is. And it's, it's one of those things it's changing so quickly, you know, in the context of our podcasts, like we're recording this today and a week from now, it'll be different by the time this airs. So it's really an exciting time, you know, it's, there's a lot of kind of gray area.

[00:17:15] It's very improvisational and grassroots. And so there's a decriminalization movement happening all over the country. Denver was the first to kick it off. The city of Denver was the first to do criminal. And the agentic plant medicines and it was Santa Cruz and Oakland out here in California, Washington, DC.

[00:17:36] Seattle just became the largest city just last week to decriminalize. And the state of Oregon is the first statewide. California will hopefully be soon to follow next year to decriminalize. And so. A plan for ultimate legalization and a therapeutic model by next year. Oh, 

[00:17:56] Bryan Carroll: nice. Is there any worries that by decriminalizing lists, we might open up the population to not just micro dose, but macro dose and just, we have people tripping all over the place.

[00:18:12] Kayse Gehret: Yes, that's it, of course a concern. And thankfully we have the, you know, most of the people that are on the planet, you know, talking about these things now live through the sixties, you know, and remember, and I have an example of what not to do. Also what has happened with the cannabis industry and the way that has grown nationwide has also provided a lot of information and education on what to do and what not to do and what works.

[00:18:37] So. In my estimation, the Dicker movement has been exceptionally thoughtful, whether it's an Oregon or, you know, in the individual cities and counties where a decrim is taking place, they've been very, very careful and thoughtful about, you know, making limits, you know, putting limits in place who can, how, you know, making it accessible.

[00:19:00] While also putting in place measures to curb, you know, the inevitable excesses of human beings that we are capable of. Yes. 

[00:19:10] Bryan Carroll: Yeah. I think one of the interesting things about the decriminalization process is that. It leads to safer quality of product. Like I know up here in Washington when marijuana was legalized, there was a lot of issues with, you know, people would buy marijuana and it'd be laced with others.

[00:19:32] And now you can go to, you know, I cannabis store and you can purchase something that's safe and it's quality tested. And you know that it's not going to have LSD or something else mixed in with it. So you kinda know what you're getting. So I can see, you know, if one of the worries of and someone purchasing some sort of psychedelic is that maybe it could be laced with something else, fentanyl or whatever else.

[00:19:55] That's a big deal right now. By. Decriminalizing it, you're opening up more options to get safer stuff. 

[00:20:03] Kayse Gehret: Exactly. Exactly. And this is especially relevant to, you know, the lab based psychedelics such as MTMA or LSD. Absolutely. Yes. 

[00:20:14] Bryan Carroll: Yup. Yeah. I know, like right now there's a big fentanyl issue up here.

[00:20:19] Ken in the Seattle area and it's probably Countrywide. I haven't really paid that much attention, but that's right there. That's just in pharmaceutical type drugs. Or people are getting stuff that's laced. So when you're buying stuff off the street, compared to being able to go into an actual store, just don't quite know what you're 

[00:20:37] Kayse Gehret: getting.

[00:20:39] It's very different. I mean, when you put it in the context of this is something you're growing in your garden, you know, and it's a fruit or a vegetable. And I'll say, I think that the way you hold the medicine is so important and yet the education and the way you're introduced to your relationship with the medicine and a more thoughtful, proactive, and participatory way, you know, when you truly understand.

[00:21:02] How beautiful and transformative it's it's nature, you know, it's nature that you're connecting with. You have a different reverence and a different respect that you can't conceive of using these things to excess or irresponsibly or recreationally because they, it, you're not doing them justice by that.

[00:21:22] So I think the context. That we're approaching them now in a time when we're, you know, we're coming through a global pandemic the mental health epidemic is off the charts are so many people struggling right now that I think most people are coming to the medicines in that context, you know, they're not just looking to have a good time, you know, Or a trip for the sake of tripping.

[00:21:48] They're at a point where they're very, very committed to their own health and to healing and healing our world, because we're kind of at the point where we've got to get it together and we don't have that much time to get it together individually and collectively. 

[00:22:02] Bryan Carroll: Yeah. And I mean, with depression rates and everything skyrocketing just in the last couple of years, you kind of have to give people a boost at some point, because otherwise.

[00:22:12] I mean, no, one's going to have the motivation to do anything or the desire to do anything because they just, you know, they're depressed or anxious. I don't want to go outside. They don't want to see people. They want to stay. 

[00:22:25] Kayse Gehret: Yeah. I mean, one of the main, I think one of the things that's most healing about plant medicines and the benefits, I mean, we read about, you know, that the S the cure of symptoms or the cessation of symptoms.

[00:22:39] Plant medicines. I feel help us heal by just fundamentally helping us become more present, you know, parts. So many of our disorders and our things are based on our inability to be present. We're so distracted and a lot of anxiety comes from just being overwhelmed and anxious about the future. Depression comes from, you know, being trapped in these ruminating, overthinking, you know, loops.

[00:23:04] And so when we are helped to be brought to presence that just in and of itself is so healing. And when we're present, we can be more creative. We can be more imaginative, we can be more hopeful of possibility. And so that's, I think. Y it helps with anxiety and depression fundamentally because we're, we're helping us, helping ourselves remember to be in this present moment.

[00:23:34] And that's all we have. 

[00:23:36] Bryan Carroll: Right. Is there any downsides that you know of for microdosing? 

[00:23:42] Kayse Gehret: But that's a great question. So there's not really a whole lot of like side effects, like a pharmaceutical med, but you touched on this earlier when you said. You were so spot on the way plant medicine works is it helps you feel more, it puts you in touch with your feelings more versus numbing you.

[00:24:02] And if there is a challenge with microdosing and plant medicine, I would say for people who are not in touch with their emotions, you know, if that's new to you, that can be an adjustment. You know, if you have kind of distracted and numbed your way through life to date, and then all of a sudden. You know, you're, you are touched with your own emotions and kind of, you know, a woman in our community recently called it.

[00:24:29] She said, plant medicines to me are big honesty and that's such a great, great way to put it. And you have to be ready to kind of face your emotions to sit with uncomfortable emotions and embrace kind of our full humanity and understanding that true healing. Isn't just being kind of now. Or happy and being held within this narrow framework of feeling is true.

[00:24:55] Healing is being able to embrace the full range and you can't experience the great wonder and all enjoy and creativity of life. If you can't also hold space for grief and disappointment and the more challenging emotions. So I would say if there's a side effect, it's just that you're going to feel more clearly and you're going to feel more fully.

[00:25:20] Bryan Carroll: Yeah, I could see the future. Once things be decriminalized and more legalized, you'll have these centers where you might be working with a therapist of some sort and you're, you know, T microdosing and then you're experiencing these emotions and they're able to sit there and kind of work through it with you and teach you, you know, how to deal with those emotions and those feelings that do come up and then.

[00:25:45] I feel like that'd be a lot more effective than just numbing the entire population. Exactly, 

[00:25:50] Kayse Gehret: exactly. And that's why it's so important. I think to have a coach or a support, a partner, a community, and some kind to help you move through that because it is new to us. Right. It's we don't learn self-awareness and emotional intelligence in elementary school.

[00:26:04] I wish we did, but you know, better, late than never. And if we're picking up those skills as an adult it's new to many of us. And so. Understanding that emotions pass and change and being okay with not being comfortable all the time is, is new for us. We've created such a plethora of distractions in our modern society.

[00:26:26] That, that in and of itself it's much like plant medicine is much like meditation or contemplative practice. The more you practice, the more you can hold a range of emotions without them. So that's very common. After a few months of microdosing people report, you know, I'm still getting, you know, at times I get impatient or I get angry if someone cuts me off on the road, but I don't, I'm not overtaken.

[00:26:55] I just have a level of cushion between my emotion, what I'm feeling and my reaction to it. I can hold space. And so your depression and your anxiety might not be curious. But it no longer becomes your encompassing identity. It's just something that's part of you. 

[00:27:14] Bryan Carroll: Perfect. Well, are there any final things you want to make sure that we touch on when it comes to micro-dosing?

[00:27:20] Kayse Gehret: Yeah. Oh, it was so many, but if I had to narrow it down, I would say, you know, I have a lot of people come who are like, I. I, I don't consider myself depressed or I don't consider myself having an addiction. Is this, but I'm curious as this for me and I absolutely it's it's for everyone. So there are so many other benefits than just kind of the symptoms of things.

[00:27:48] It's like I said, it, it enhances your intuition, your creativity or imagination your compassion. Your connection with nature. There's so many benefits that you might not necessarily read about because they can't be quantified and they can't be, you know, qualified in a research study. But I would encourage anyone who's kind of called to explore because there's typically a reason you're being drawn.

[00:28:14] Bryan Carroll: Perfect Kayse. Well, my final question for you is what is your vision and what healthy looks like and what are three things you do daily to reach that vision? 

[00:28:22] Kayse Gehret: Ooh, that's such a good question. So I definitely microdosing would be tops for me. You know, I've studied so many different modalities and trained in so many different modalities and I would say.

[00:28:36] Nothing aside where meditation too has meant so much to me and my own personal healing, then beginning to micro-dosing practice with plant medicine. So that would be top the second would be regulating our nervous systems. So that is, I think. We are just at the tip of the iceberg of understanding how much our nervous system is tied to our anxiety and depression and our ability to function well in the world.

[00:29:07] So I think any practice. That you can calm and soothe your nervous system from the modern, in our modern lifestyle, that will be different. It'll be a movement practice for some people, a contemplative or prayer practice expressive arts dance cheek on, but having something you do daily. That helps calm and regulate your nervous system.

[00:29:30] And then the last one I would say is to undertake some kind of soul work. You know, it's not something we talk about. We, we invest time, you know, every day, every week, some of us in working out, we take our of our bodies and we pay attention to our diet and hydration and those things, but to really invest in our soul and our spiritual work, I think Has an enormous impact on every facet of our life.

[00:29:57] You know, we don't, you know, with the saying goes, you know, we don't see the world as it is. We see the world as we are. So the more we work on our internal selves that's going to shape our external self. So what does health look like to me? Health looks to me is. Being happy, being balanced, you know, being healed and healing always.

[00:30:22] And being at ease in our own skin. That to me is kind of the 

[00:30:25] Bryan Carroll: ultimate health. I love it. Well, people can learn more about [email protected]. Can you talk about what people will experience when they go to that website? 

[00:30:36] Kayse Gehret: Yeah, happy to, so are really fundamentally around micro-dosing we have created a commuting.

[00:30:44] So there's tremendous power and healing in, in group work being together. So we have an array of programs. Our intensive programs are limited to just 12 people and we do those throughout the year. And then we have a larger community program and it's people of all ages, backgrounds levels of experience.

[00:31:03] All of them share a dedication and a commitment and the practice of microdosing of what brings us together for very disparate reasons. But it's really a beautiful way to practice a medicines. Does it have the support with kind of kindred spirits from all over the. 

[00:31:19] Bryan Carroll: Awesome. Is there anywhere else that people can find you?

[00:31:22] Do you have like YouTube or anything? 

[00:31:24] Kayse Gehret: Yeah, I'm on all the social platforms. With the spelling of my name, I'm very easy to find on all of them. LinkedIn is probably the primary one I use professionally. So you can find me on LinkedIn and then I'm also on Facebook and Instagram. 

[00:31:40] Bryan Carroll: Awesome. Kayse. Well, thank you so much for coming on.

[00:31:43] I know I had a lot of questions about dosing and I think it's a very fascinating up and coming field. And like you said, every week, it's different, what's allowed and not allowed. So I mean, by the time this air is, there could be a lot of changes already. So that's what I'm really interested in to see the changes over the next couple years.

[00:32:02] Kayse Gehret: Yes, absolutely. It's a really, it's a daunting time to be alive, but it's such a fantastic and profound time to be alive. Happy to be here and share. 

[00:32:12] Bryan Carroll: So I hope you've learned a little bit about plant medicines and how to use it for microdosing purposes. And if you want to learn more about it, then head on over to Kayse's website, microdosing for healing.com and she has a lot of great resources there that you can use to get into this type of.

[00:32:30] Thing very safely and just make sure that you're getting the right stuff and you're on the right track. If this is something that you're interested in now over here on the west coast, a lot of this stuff is becoming a lot more mainstream and the legalities are changing all the time around it. A lot more stuff is becoming legal and becoming a very easy to get.

[00:32:52] So. Remember that, try to know what the legalities and the rules are in the location that you're at and different parts of the country will be different when it comes down to this stuff. So thank you, Kayse, for coming onto the show and chatting with us all about this. Now in next week, I have a cardiologist, Dr.

[00:33:11] Phil Ovadia on the show. Let's go learn who he is and what we'll be talking about. I am here with Dr. Phil Ovadia. Hey Phil, what is one unique thing about you that most people don't know? That 

[00:33:23] I am a heart surgeon who doesn't believe that cholesterol is the primary cause of heart 

[00:33:28] disease, which is great.

[00:33:31] And also can put you at risk. Well, what will we be learning about in our interview together? We're 

[00:33:38] Dr. Phil: going to be learning how people can stay off my operating table and wide metabolic health is the most important thing to focus on 

[00:33:45] Bryan Carroll: to do. In what are your favorite foods or nutrients that you think everyone should get more of in their diet?

[00:33:52] I am a 

[00:33:53] Dr. Phil: big fan of whole real food. That primarily is animal-based products. So meat, seafood, and dairy 

[00:34:02] Bryan Carroll: in a, what are your top three health tips for anyone who wants to improve their overall wellness? 

[00:34:08] Dr. Phil: Number one is eat whole real food. Number two is move more. And number three is 

[00:34:14] Bryan Carroll: sleeping. I think the name of the game is to keep as many people off of the operating table as possible.

[00:34:21] And we'll be talking all about how to do that in next week's episode. So until then keep climbing to the peak of your health.