The more research that is done on different digestive issues, such as IBS, the more we are discovering that there are hidden contributing factors that need to be addressed.
The question then becomes a chicken or the egg scenario, where we aren't quite sure what factor has led to the health condition, but we know that both need to be addressed at some point.
For instance, SIBO is often present in cases of IBS, yet only the IBS is initially treated. If you are missing such a big component like SIBO, it is hard to take care of the IBS.
In this episode with Phoebe Lapine, we will be talking about what SIBO is, and how to reduce symptoms of SIBO.
What To Expect From This Episode
- [0:00] Welcome to the Summit For Wellness Podcast
- [2:00] What led Phoebe Lapine to become a food and nutrition writer
- [4:45] When Phoebe was diagnosed with Hashimoto's, did she have many symptoms
- [6:15] How many people have SIBO
- [8:30] Which tests can be done to confirm if symptoms are related to SIBO
- [11:00] Why do women suffer so much from IBS and digestive issues compared to men
- [13:45] Is it difficult to actually get to the root cause of SIBO because of other underlying health issues that can impact SIBO
- [18:00] What are some simple SIBO treatment options that will knock down a lot of the overgrowth
- [21:00] How long does it take to recover from SIBO
- [22:45] What can you do to break down the biofilms that protect the bacteria
- [24:30] Are there foods people with SIBO should completely avoid
- [29:30] Once the bacteria is in the small intestine, is it there forever, or does it need a consistent flow of bacteria to stay a problem
- [31:30] Phoebe Lapine's final thoughts on SIBO
Resources From This Episode
Some of these resources may contain affiliate links, which provides a small commission to me (at no extra expense to you).
- Read Phoebe's book SIBO Made Simple
Transcript For Episode (Transcripts aren't even close to 100% Accurate)
Bryan Carroll: [00:00:14] Your digestive tract is extremely important. Your ability to break down nutrients and absorb those nutrients literally creates a building blocks for every single cell in your body.
So when your digestive system isn't working properly, You notice it everywhere in your body. And there can be some really funky things that happen in your digestive track, such as developing something called small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. Now I'm sure you have heard about the importance of gut bugs and probiotics, but when bacteria overgrows in the wrong places, it can cause a lot of issues.
What's up everyone. I'm Bryan Carroll and I'm here to help people move more eat well. And we address Andrus in today. Phoebe lupine is joining us to talk all about SIBO and how it can impact your body. Now, if you've never heard of SIBO before, that doesn't mean you shouldn't pay attention because a lot more people may experience some signs of SIBO than you would think.
So let's jump into my conversation with Phoebe. Phoebe lupine is a food and health writer. Gluten-free chef speaker and the voice behind the award winning blog. Feed me Phoebe named by women's health magazine as a top nutrition rate of 2017 Phoebe's debut memoir, the wellness project Chronicles her journey with the auto immune disease hostage.
Hashimoto's thyroiditis. She is the host of the SIBO made simple podcast and author of the forthcoming book by the same name, which helps those newly diagnosed or chronically fighting small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. Thank you for coming onto the show. Phoebe. It's great to be here, of course. And I'm really excited to chat with you about SIBO.
But before we get started with that, let's learn a little bit more about you, what your background is and what got you interested in being a food and health writer.
Phoebe Lapine: [00:01:58] Sure. So I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis when I was 22, which was a chronically around the time that I quit my corporate job to work full time and food.
And I had no mindfulness about my diet at the time. I was really just passionate about home cooking and I had a blog at the time and a first cookbook deal. And so I was. Private cheffing and catering and kind of doing everything there was to do involving food to make ends meet. And I slowly wore myself into a really bad rock bottom.
And as anyone who has Hashimoto's will recognize the fatigue was just crushing. My skin was a mess. My hair was falling out. I was like exhausted all the time, as I mentioned, but also just like. Waking up in the middle of the night with sweats and having horrible insomnia on top of it. And yeah, it became kind of an occupational hazard too, because every time I ate, I was basically doubled over in pain.
So I eventually went to go see kind of a more holistic doctor who, you know, Put me on an elimination diet and kind of explain some of the connections to the food as medicine piece. And so I kind of dove in there, but then I found myself becoming really overwhelmed and frustrated as like a young person living in an expensive city with limited time.
How do I, you know, Go through this incredibly long daunting to do list of quote unquote detoxifying my life. And that's kind of what I wrote about in the wellness project. And I ended up kind of doing this year long blog series on my site, which had previously just been all about recipes and food about how I was kind of slowly making over my life by making one change.
One month at a time. And you know, the book and the project, it really chronicled all these different areas of wellness that a lot of people, I think overlook, you know, we focus so much on exercise and diet, but I really want to learn more about the connection to sleep and to skincare even, and gut health of course, and hormone balance.
But yeah, kind of by the end of it, I had really. Done a number on myself in a good way. And I've always just been kind of fascinated about writing about health ever since, and kind of in the business. As I now realize of writing books that I wish I had had when I was diagnosed with something. So when I was later diagnosed with SIBO, that's exactly what I did there too.
Bryan Carroll: [00:04:21] So hindsight is 2020, obviously, but when you were leaving your corporate job was there any symptoms indication that you might be developing Hashimoto's or was it after that, that you started running yourself into the ground and then it developed.
Phoebe Lapine: [00:04:36] Yeah, no. When I was diagnosed, I actually didn't have very many symptoms that I could recognize.
I was really lucky. You know, there's so many doctors who do not run full thyroid panels. I mean, I, now that I'm an educator in this area, it is so upsetting the number of women I get, who write me and say, I've asked my doctor for this panel and they won't give it to me mind blowing anyway. So I was really lucky to have a doctor who though wasn't.
You know, particularly holistically minded at least, you know, did her due diligence and was running these panels. So I do feel confident that I probably caught it fairly early on. I think that kind of my catalyst event was a really bad. Bout of food poisoning or a parasite that I got while traveling right after college.
And I think, you know, with any auto-immune disease, it's kind of a lot of different compounding factors. And then there's like one thing that lights the match. I think that was my match. But you know, being on the birth control pill for many, many years and not treating my body with incredible respect or in college or afterwards, and, you know, eating, not the best diet, you know, all these things kind of added up.
Bryan Carroll: [00:05:46] It's actually pretty amazing. How many doctors will tell you that they ran a full thyroid panel and all they tested was like TSH and T3 or something similar to that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, that's not the full panel, but thanks.
Phoebe Lapine: [00:05:59] I'm glad you know that.
Bryan Carroll: [00:06:02] So you mentioned that SIBO. Can you tell us what is SIBO and how many people are projected to have SIBO?
Even if they don't know they
Phoebe Lapine: [00:06:10] have it. Yes. So SIBO stands for small intestine, bacterial overgrowth, and it sounds like a niche nerdy topic, but it affects so many people. It said that, you know, somewhere over 60% of all IBS cases are actually being caused by SIBO. Some people think that number is even higher and IBS is the most.
Diagnosed GI condition in the world. So that's, you know, around 25 to 40 million Americans that could be potentially being affected by SIBO and kind of similar to IBS. It's not really a disease in and of itself. It's really kind of a sign that something else in the body has gone awry. And you know, for those who need further clarification, we talk a lot about gut bacteria and the wellness world.
I think. People don't really fully grasp that the majority of that population is in your large intestine. That's where they belong. That's where they have a role in your small intestine and that's where you're absorbing your nutrients. And so while there are some bacteria there, there's really not. A role for a large population.
And when there is, you know, some sort of overgrowth or an imbalance in those numbers, it can wreak havoc. The bacteria starts to compete for your food resources when they eat your food, they release gas and that gas causes a lot of inflammation and really uncomfortable kind of IBS type symptoms including.
Bloating and distension, that's like really putting pressure under your ribs. You know, burping was a big one of mine cause you know, the exit ramp becomes that much further away and the gas is trying to get out any way possible. And then, you know, because of what happens with the bacteria present it can lead to leaky gut slash intestinal permeability, and then you can kind of get into like a whole host of autoimmune type spectrum symptoms, you know, just because.
Of, you know, various food particles or the bacteria themselves making their way into the bloodstream and kind of triggering systemic inflammation.
Bryan Carroll: [00:08:09] So how, how do you know for sure that it SIBO, are there specific tests that you can do that will tell you whether a SIBO or something else.
Phoebe Lapine: [00:08:18] Yeah. So there's something called a breath test for SIBO.
And it is a little bit controversial. There's some people who argue that it's not as accurate as some people claim and. You know, while I would completely agree there. The meta analysis do show that for positive breath tests said that diagnosed SIBO there is an actual correlation to treatment and a reduction in symptoms.
So whatever you want to call it, There's a there, there but yes, it is kind of a finicky test. So how it works is you kind of prepare for 24 hours, eat, eliminated diet fast overnight, and then the morning of your test, you drink the sugar solution. And the hypothesis is that, you know, the only thing that could be.
Eating that sugar solution and releasing gas is bacteria. So you breathe into little tubes, every 15 to 20 minutes, kind of all the labs do it differently. It really is the wild West. And then they measure the amount of methane or hydrogen gas in your breath. And see, you know, if it reaches a certain threshold too early on in the journey that there's bacteria present too far up the ante intestinal track where it's not supposed to be.
Bryan Carroll: [00:09:29] Are there specific gases that they're testing for?
Phoebe Lapine: [00:09:32] Yeah, hydrogen and methane. And then there's a third gas, hydrogen sulfide that when my book was being written, didn't exist yet, but now it does. Now there's a test that will do all three of
Bryan Carroll: [00:09:43] them. When they're testing for the gases is a test testing all three at once.
Or do you have to do a specific test for each guests?
Phoebe Lapine: [00:09:51] There is now a test that will do all three at once. So it used to be just the hydrogen and the methane.
Bryan Carroll: [00:09:56] Oh, well. So before they could have easily missed one. Yeah. Yeah,
Phoebe Lapine: [00:10:02] exactly. Well, the, well, no, you could do the hydrogen methane at the same time, but the hydrogen sulfide, you would have to kind of diagnosed by a little bit of guesswork and seeing what happened in the third hour of the test and then also have symptoms and, you know, symptoms are also the best way to diagnose Regardless, you know, in addition to what the breath test says, you always want to think about symptoms.
Bryan Carroll: [00:10:26] Yeah. One of those symptoms you mentioned was distension, which a lot of people report that they look like seven months pregnant. That's how much bloating they have going on. Yeah. It's, it's pretty amazing. So is there a gender that is more susceptible to SIBO than the other or is it pretty equal
Phoebe Lapine: [00:10:45] across the board?
No, I'll all IBS is 75% women. And SIBO certainly reflects that in the numbers. And, you know, there are so many reasons why that could be, but we have to also think about that. You know, 75% of all auto diseases are also women and so much about. You know, our hormonal balance affects our gut health and vice versa.
If you look at kind of the list of underlying causes for SIBO, there are a ton of autoimmune diseases on the list. A lot of hormone specific issues as well. And, you know, then there's just kind of the, the lifestyle. Stuff. So stress is I think, a really under appreciated root cause of SIBO. It's usually not the only cause, but it could be again, that kind of like catalyst event lack of sleep would also be a risk factor.
You know, a lot of things that, unfortunately, women disproportionally experience in our population, since we got a lot, we're wearing a lot of
Bryan Carroll: [00:11:41] hats. Yep. Always, always. And so I, I've always been curious when it comes to men. If part of it is they typically don't like going to the doctor, so they're not getting tested.
And then they wait until things get to a really bad point. And then they finally go in or if it truly is like, You know that big of a split between the two. What do you
Phoebe Lapine: [00:12:05] think? I think that our hormonal motherboard is just so finely calibrated that a lot can go wrong. I mean, even just a few examples with SIBO, I mean, Hashimoto's is definitely a root cause connection and.
If you don't have enough of your active T3 thyroid hormone, you know, it just means that certain aspects of your digestion are not going to work properly. You're not going to have enough stomach acid your small intestinal motility, which is kind of the waves that move food through your intestines are not going to be working properly.
And then, you know, A lot of these things are all connected. So estrogen dominance, if you have an issue with that, that's going to prevent you from, you know, converting your thyroid hormones properly. And it just becomes kind of a vicious cycle. If your digestion is sluggish and you're not eliminating properly, it's probably also going to overload your liver to a certain extent.
And then again, you may not be converting your thyroid hormones properly. So I just think there's probably more that could go wrong. Yeah.
Bryan Carroll: [00:13:09] Yeah. And so you brought up auto-immune disease as being a potential root cause for SIBO a few times now. So does that mean that sometimes you can't actually get to the root cause of SIBO to treat the SIBO because of what the root causes could be and the difficulty of treating those.
Phoebe Lapine: [00:13:28] Yeah, I wouldn't put most auto-immune diseases on that list. I would think like a root cause that, you know, is insurmountable would be, you know, like missing your ileocecal valve that have some sort of dysfunction associated with it because that's basically the backdoor between your large intestine, your small intestine.
It's one of, you know, the. Few examples where like backflow could actually be an issue. Kind of the, the three buckets of root causes are, you know, the bacteria are not killed. So some people say that's just a risk factor, but you have to think that if they're making it to the small intestine, you know, something has to go wrong to which they're not killed.
So whether that is. Not enough stomach acid or any sort of, or not enough of any of your anti-microbial substances, your bile acids, your pancreatic enzymes, or just your immune system not working properly because our immune system is, you know, there to identify the things that are other from us and to prevent them from, you know, taking hold.
So that would be kind of one bucket. And then the second bucket is that kind of motility. So there's this. Mechanism called the migrating motor complex. And that's kind of like the street sweeper after a meal. So we have peristalsis, which is like the muscular contractions that move food through.
But then the small intestine is so long and windy. It is, you know, has a bigger surface area than a football field. And there's just a lot of opportunities for debris to get left behind. And it is this, you know, Streetsweeper wave, that's fueled by your nerve cells that kind of prevents that from happening.
And so they've kind of identified through research that one of the big categories that contributes to SIBO is, you know, when something goes wrong with that function. And because it is, you know, fueled by nerve cells, you know, a lot can go wrong. There's a lot that can go wrong with the brain gut connection.
You know, if you're lacking certain nutrients like B12, Also, it won't be properly fueled and that's kinda what happens with Hashimoto's. And then there's kind of like the third, the third bucket, which is structural issues. So any sort of laparoscopic surgery they've found to be a pretty big risk factor for SIBO, you know, just because of the scar tissue that can form internally and just make your, your organs not move as freely as they once did.
And, you know, any sort of accident, alignment issues then there's kind of a, you know, the more dangerous ones, like any sort of kink or, you know, something called a fistula, you know, various things that actually are happening in your intestines that like a GI would be diagnosing. But yeah, and then, you know, lacking in ileocecal valve or having ileocecal valve dysfunction, those are kind of all in the structural categories.
But it's mostly, I think like most of the auto-immune diseases fall under kind of the motility issues. So of course, you know, IBD and celiac, there's just a lot of, of damage and wear and tear on the intestines that can damage motility. Yeah. I mean, there it's unfortunately, or fortunately they do it well.
No, it's mostly unfortunate. But it's interesting. It's unfortunate that there are so many different, you know, things that contribute to SIBO. I found it fascinating because I've learned so much more about all these other conditions since SIBO seems to be kind of the nexus of all of them. But I'd say that.
For most of them there are while you can't overcome it, why you can't eliminate the root cause there are things that you can do to protect against, you know, The, the issues at play. So, you know, for Hashimoto's people, there are, you know, different supplements and potential prescription medications that you can take to help with motility.
If you know that, you know, you're not converting your T3 well enough, you know, there are T3 specific thyroid thyroid replacement hormones. You can get a B12 shot, you know, there's kind of, there are safeguards
Bryan Carroll: [00:17:18] there. So since there are so many potential root causes for a SIBO what do treatment options look like then?
Is it pretty complex with the route that you would have to go in order to treat, or are there some simple steps that you can take right away that could, you know, cover a large ground of that recovery process?
Phoebe Lapine: [00:17:40] Yeah. So, I mean, typically people think of SIBO treatment as some sort of kill protocol. So making sure that you get rid of the acute problem, which is too many bacteria in your small intestines, and most people do that by either conventional antibiotics, herbal antibiotics, or something called the elemental diet, which is not a diet.
It's like a medical shake where you don't eat. Real food for two weeks, you just drank this medical shake. It's not ever sounded like something I would want to do. So usually that's kind of the main tactic, but then, you know, there is the whole concept of what do you do about the root causes. And that I think is where a lot of.
A lot of doctors just don't go the extra mile and where a lot of people kind of get stuck in these horrible cycles of chronic SIBO is just because, you know, you may get rid of the bacteria temporarily, but if you don't, you know, heal the root cause or pay attention to the root cause or safeguard against it, you know, you're.
You're just going to have the same problem again, shortly thereafter. So in terms of healing, some of the root causes, there are like a ton of different types of therapies. Especially for the structural types. You know, even I mentioned like the laparoscopic surgery is, you know, some people will be like, well, what can I do about that?
I already had the surgery, but there actually is certain type of body work that can address your organs and like a really targeted way. Something called visceral manipulation or structural integration even cranial sacral therapy. There's. Just a lot that can be done. And then I don't know, there's there's hypnotherapy for the, the mental side of things.
And it's not to say that, you know, SIBOs, certainly not all in your head, IBS is certainly not all in your head, but there is actually a lot of really compelling evidence about hypnotherapy as you know, A technique or a tactic to kind of heal one side of the equation. He'll, you know, again like the brain gut connection.
Yeah, so there's to answer your question, there's a complete mixed bag. And I actually think that if we paid more attention to maybe, you know, some of these less invasive or aggressive tactics that healed the root cause first, you know, Maybe that would take care of the SIBO on its own for some people, maybe for others, you know, you still need to, to eradicate the issue first and foremost.
And then of course, you know, I think there's a whole healing phase that people don't give enough time or mind to, which is, you know, the fact that SIBO causes a lot of damage. And even if you do eradicate it, even if you do kind of pay attention to the root causes, you still need to heal the gut afterwards.
Bryan Carroll: [00:20:11] So on average, how long would you say that it usually takes to recover from SIBO? Because I know a lot of people, they want things done like ASAP and that might not be the case,
Phoebe Lapine: [00:20:21] right? No, I say in the book. So I'll give you my own example. So I had a pretty straightforward cases, Debo. I did one round of herbal antimicrobials, and I got rid of it.
Did I feel better by the end? Absolutely not. Like it took me a while with diet and various other changes to kind of get back on track and feel like I was fully healed and eating, you know, a complete sleep, diversified diet. And I think, you know, maybe it's cause I did this weird project that took a year of my life, but you know, an organ like your gut and.
Especially, you know, a condition like SIBO that could have been like something that's been affected. You affecting you for many, many years without you knowing it. It's just crazy to think that you could heal in like a few weeks. It, that stuff just takes time.
Bryan Carroll: [00:21:11] Yup. Yeah. I think you know, that idea that things happen so quickly.
Like the, you know, weight loss journey lose 50 pounds in 14 days and stuff. I think that's trained people's brain to expect healing to happen super quick. And I think that's doing us a disservice because it does take time. Right. It took time to get into the state that you're in, that you want to get out of.
And it's going to take some time to get back to normal, too.
Phoebe Lapine: [00:21:39] Yeah, I probably would have sold more books if I had, you know, a 21 day plan part of it, but it's just not
Bryan Carroll: [00:21:45] realistic. Yeah. Fixture SIBO and lose 50 pounds in 14 years. Yes.
Phoebe Lapine: [00:21:50] I know. I went to sold so many books.
Bryan Carroll: [00:21:54] Remember that for next time? Yeah. So with SIBO and bacteria in general, usually they have some sort of biofilm that's protecting them.
Do you take care of the biofilms and the SIBO treatments?
Phoebe Lapine: [00:22:06] A lot of doctors do recommend taking some sort of biofilm Buster. There's actually a lot of different natural supplements that can kind of do the job. But yeah, I think that they've learned more about that in the last few years and it's becoming kind of more of a widely known and accepted element of SIBO treatment.
So if your doctor isn't talking about that with you, then no worries. Just go online. We'll look up some biofilm busters. There are tons of options and there are a few brands that kind of have formulas for this.
Bryan Carroll: [00:22:40] Yeah, you have some of your favorite biofilm busters that, you know,
Phoebe Lapine: [00:22:47] Yes. I'm like completely blanking though on which brand has it.
It's on my side. I kind of have like a whole Roundup of SIBOs, specific supplements on feed me phoebe.com and the shop tab. But I do know like some natural ones, I think monolaurin is actually pretty good for biofilm busting. That's kind of an antiviral too, has like a few different A few different efficacies.
And then, you know, naturally in your diet like coconut oil, Apple, cider vinegar, these are all things that are great. I interviewed a really interesting doctor just specifically about biofilm busting and he suggested a few of those things in your diet, but you know, if you're trying to acutely get to have seatbelt, it might be worth adding a supplement to your regiment.
Bryan Carroll: [00:23:33] So what foods should someone want to SIBO completely avoid? And are there any specific foods that people would see both should get more up?
Phoebe Lapine: [00:23:42] Yes. Great question. So, yeah. First and foremost, like the biggest misconception is that diet had something to do with you getting SIBO. And if you look at the very long list of root causes, like hardly any of them have anything to do with diet.
So just keep that in mind. I think a lot of people get really bogged down with the diet piece and SIBO, because of course your symptoms are directly related to the food you're eating. That's not in your head, it's just not necessarily correlated to like the issue of the SIBO. So. The way that diets kind of used, some people will say, Oh, well, you should take away the bacteria, his favorite foods so that you starve them.
And that's kind of a SIBO myth. Like it's, you're not going to really get rid of the SIBO unless it's really mild. And maybe you're doing some other things as well with just diet alone, right? So the reason why some people do layer it with treatment is just because it can give you some relief. So there's something called the low FODMAP diet, which kind of is an acronym of various carbohydrates that tend to be your bacteria, his favorite foods, and, you know, taking out some of the big guns like garlic and onion and lagoons may give you some relief, which is great because.
You know, treatment is intense and there's this whole phenomenon called die off, which is as the bacteria die, they release toxins and could make you feel even worse. So if you can, you know, at least just kind of tame some of the gases and the inflammation, chances are that experience is going to be less miserable for you.
However, some people say, well, you know, why you trying to take away the bacteria, his favorite foods, if you're trying to kill those bacteria. And those practitioners will say, you know, eat as diverse, a diet as possible because that'll keep your bacteria on their toes. And that means we will kill them when we introduce.
You know these treatments and so there's, there's no right or wrong way to do it. You know, the timing of the diet piece and treatment is something that everyone kind of does a little bit differently. It's like finding the sweet spot where you're not miserable and you're not. Reducing your diet so much that the treatment's not going to be effective.
But then, you know, the, where diet does come in, I think is the healing portion. And there, you know, of course, if you still have some lasting gas, maybe like a short stint of the low FODMAP diet will help you. If you think that you have an overlap of like yeast and candida or a fungi problem, then, you know, reducing some.
Sugars and refined, you know, carbs might help you. It kind of depends on what your issue is. And there are a lot of dovetailing issues with SIBO. I mean, I just mentioned the bacteria and fungi, but then also histamine can be a really big issue for some people with SIBO. So I think it's important to, to recognize that there really is no one size fits all solution.
I think that kind of. General goal is to just eat as anti-inflammatory a diet as possible. Just to, you know, keep things calm and allow the gut time to heal because it's just impossible to heal. If you have so much gas irritating you, and you know, you potentially have still raging leaky gut going on and some of the big allergens aggravating your system.
So I don't know, personally, I think since. A lot of people are dealing with those issues. I just mentioned taking out some of the big allergens and just experimenting with that. Eating a quote-unquote cleaner diet can help. But then also, you know, A lot of the, the ingredients on the low FODMAP diet that are removed are really healthy vegetables.
So I think it's important to realize that you still, like your biggest goal is to have as diverse an array of plants on your plate as possible. That's the end goal. That's the key to good gut health. It's a hard bridge to kind of cross when you're dealing with SIBO where so many vegetables may. Create symptoms.
But in terms of kind of the ammo you're putting on your plate, I still think it's about trying to find ways to get some of those leafy greens and really helpful antioxidant, rich vegetables into your diet and maybe that's pureeing them. You know, cooking, I think can really do a lot for it to help your gut kind of manage harder to digest ingredients.
Or maybe it's just eating them in smaller quantities and eating lots of different things on one plate versus large quantities of certain things that may aggregate aggravate you. Eating a lot of ginger and tumeric and fresh lemon juice, kind of all naturally anti-inflammatory anti-microbial things.
Yeah, I dunno. That's a lot of info.
Bryan Carroll: [00:28:20] So with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, Once the bacteria gets into the small and test sign. Is it there forever until you do something to take care of it? Like if you have one instance where for whatever reason, there's a backflow through the ileocecal valve from the large intestine into the small intestine, does that then just that one instance causes the bacteria to start proliferating in the small intestine and thrive, or does it have to be a constant stream of bacteria coming into the small intestine?
Phoebe Lapine: [00:28:54] Well, gosh, it can be a lot of different things. And I think, again, it's like, you kind of have to have the perfect storm you know, cause you can have low stomach acid and maybe something makes it pass, you know, that first leg of the labyrinth. But then if you have, you know, a really robust immune system and, or a perfectly functioning, migrating motor complex, You know, they're not going to stay, they're going to migrate to where they're supposed to go.
And similarly, I mean, the backflow, I know a little bit less about, cause it's such a specific example, but I do know that there are people who don't have ileocecal valves who are of course more prone to SIBO, but who managed to live, you know, the majority of their life without SIBO. Um, so I think it's more just about, you know, Promoting each of these aspects of our digestive system to function the way they're supposed to function.
So making sure you've got enough stomach acid, making sure that, you know, a lot of women get their gallbladder removed. If you don't have a gallbladder, like maybe you're supplementing with bile acids and taking a digestive enzyme before every meal. You know, it's just about kind of compensating for what, you know, your shortcomings to be, or just changing your lifestyle to live with kind of these basic functions in mind, you know, are migrating motor complex, only kicks in during a fasting state of 90 minutes or more.
So I see, you know, a big risk factor for SIBO is just constantly snacking. Is that going to cause SIBO on its own? Probably not, but you know, it's a small way that you can adjust your lifestyle to again, support the way your digestive system is supposed to function.
Bryan Carroll: [00:30:24] Awesome. Well, are there any final things you want to touch on with SIBO?
Phoebe Lapine: [00:30:30] Oh my gosh. I don't know. Well, I think, I think to, to that last point, I will just emphasize that how you eat is more important than what you eat when it comes to your digestive health. Because it's not just about, you know, we, we mostly talk about like eating for your good gut bacteria, feeding your good gut bacteria, and that's great.
But as we see with SIBO, there's just a lot of dysfunction that can come from other elements that have nothing to do with food. Right.
Bryan Carroll: [00:30:55] Perfect. Well, thank you so much for sharing all that. Where can people find you and tell us a little bit about this beautiful book that you have. The SIBO made simple book, which is an amazing layout by the way.
I'm very, very impressed with it. And you have a bunch of recipes in here as well. So the SIBO made simple book. I'm guessing you can get that at any type of
Phoebe Lapine: [00:31:16] bookstore, any type of bookstore, you can find out more about [email protected] I have a free gut heal boot camp for a very short time remaining.
I think it's going to be going away in April. So if you pop over there, you can get that with your order receipt. And then you can find [email protected] You can find lots of free recipes and Seba resources there and access to my podcast. And yeah, I'm always on Instagram at Phoebe lupine.
Bryan Carroll: [00:31:43] Awesome. Well, thank you Phoebe so much for coming on the show and talking about SIBO and your own experience with Hashimoto's and whatnot.
I know a lot of people have those experiences themselves, and it's just really good to hear from other people that have been successful on finding something to take care of that. So thank you so much. My pleasure. If you think you might have some issues with SIBO, I highly recommend checking out Phoebe's book.
It is very well written and covers a lot of different ways to work with SIBO. You can find links to the book and Phoebe's [email protected] slash a one four six. Next week. I'll be chatting with Dr. Shane creado. Let's go learn who he is. I am here with Dr. Shane creado. Hey Shane, what is one unique thing about you that most people don't know?
Shane Creado: [00:32:32] I love acting all my life. I've been passionate about acting and I can stage I to the Cinderella once. Cause I was in a boys, Jesuit boys school, and I chose a Virgin Mary three years in a row, did nothing for my social life, but I love acting.
Bryan Carroll: [00:32:53] And what will we relearning about in our interview together in our interview,
Shane Creado: [00:32:58] we're going to touch on the importance of sleep or overall life quality, the impact of sleep on the athletic performance on work performance. How we can start off today as soon as you so you can start off by diving into sleep, finding out how much you need finding her time at right, and how you can boost your quality of life productivity through better sleep.
Bryan Carroll: [00:33:31] In a, what are your favorite foods or nutrients that you think everyone should get more of in their diet?
Shane Creado: [00:33:37] I know what you shouldn't get more of. I know I'm not a fan of diets, memorizing sugars. Minimizing fast carbs. Minimizing processed foods is the first step because those things can we calve up on our bodies in terms of inflammation, sleep food, sensitivities, and performance. There's a good reason why people resort to junk food when they stress eat it's because the junk food can shut their frontal lobes down, which are responsible for concentration executive functioning task organization among others.
So avoid the junk, avoid the processed stuff. What are the carbs fats, carbs and sugars. Go with the greens. Go with the meat. Vegan diet are unhealthy vegetarian diets on healthy because they found it to be. Severely deficient in zinc, which is needed to make serotonin and norepinephrine in your brain. Big deficiencies in iron, which is needed to for your dopamine production and red blood cells, carrying oxygen to your brain.
Those vegan and vegetarian diets are super low in Omega three fatty acids, which are responsible for brain cell health. And they're also super low in, in other nutrients that impact you like B12, which response for nerve health and again, red blood cell. So meat greens avoid the junk and you're good in a,
Bryan Carroll: [00:35:12] what are your top three health tips for anyone who wants to improve their overall wellness
Shane Creado: [00:35:17] sleep is your anchor.
It's your foundation of fixed wake up time. Every day is key. Meditating is super helpful for the brain. You can use it as a wind down routine before bed, because even at Harvard study in 2018 showed people in their fifties who meditate it just 27 minutes a day for just eight weeks, actually boosted the gray matter in the front and the sides of the brain by levels equivalent to 25 year-olds.
So that's a profound impact. Keep things simple meditate before bed fixed, wake up time.
Bryan Carroll: [00:35:59] It was a blast chatting with Shane and everyone needs to focus more on sleep. So until then keep climbing to the peak of your health.
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