We've all experienced some sort of betrayal. It could be a loved one that told others one of your secrets. Or it could be your maid of honor that never showed up to the wedding. What we do know is that betrayal hurts, and it takes some time to get over.
However, a lot of times we don't necessarily get over it, and that betrayal then shapes our new lives. It gives you a reason to push others away, or have a hard time of trusting others. In some instances, it can lead to personal self destruction, where you go down a path of drugs or alcohol, or even use food as your escape.
Dr. Debi Silber explains to us that there are different stages of betrayal that we go through to get over it. However, often times we get stuck at stage 3, and we can be there for decades. Learn how to move through post betrayal syndrome and create a new life that is based around healthy habits.
What To Expect From This Episode
- [0:00] Welcome to the Summit For Wellness Podcast
- [2:00] How did Dr. Debi Silber start working through betrayal
- [3:15] Are there hidden types of betrayal that aren’t often recognized
- [4:30] Is one large betrayal worse than mini betrayals
- [5:30] Betrayal doesn’t just impact your emotions, it leads to post betrayal syndrome
- [6:45] Does our brain suppress the feeling of betrayal over the years
- [8:30] The predictable timeline of post betrayal syndrome
- [9:05] Stage 2 is where we are shocked and blindsided
- [10:00] Stage 3 is the survival stage
- [12:00] Stage 4 is finding and adjusting to a new normal
- [13:15] The 5th stage is where healing, rebirth, and a new world view will happen
- [14:15] Can you have a betrayal from our life experiences, not just from what someone else does to us
- [16:15] The 3rd stage is where most people get stuck and never break free of
- [17:30] Is it difficult to admit your betrayal when you are in stage 3
- [20:00] If someone doesn’t recognize they are stuck, they will not be able to move on from stage 3
- [22:45] If you are the one who betrayed someone else, what stages do you go through
- [25:15] Final thoughts from Debi Silber on betrayal and how to find a community to support you
- [26:45] Are there any betrayals that are completely unforgivable
- [27:45] What does Debi do each day to improve her own health
- [28:15] If you know something you will say is honest yet may hurt someone, is it worth saying
Resources From This Episode
Some of these resources may contain affiliate links, which provides a small commission to me (at no extra expense to you).
- Take Dr. Debi's quiz to see if you have been impacted by betrayal- Take it Here
Transcript For Episode (Transcripts aren't even close to 100% Accurate)
Bryan Carroll: [00:00:15] If you have ever had someone betray your trust, you know that it sucks often. We think that we get over the betrayal and move on. However, a lot of times we get stuck in what's considered to be stage three of post betrayal syndrome.
The question around betrayal is what happens to us after the fact, do we forgive him? Forget, do we remove that person from our lives forever does a bit trail then cause us to lose trust in others and reshapes our future lives. What's up everyone. I'm Bryan Carroll and I'm here to help people move more, eat well and be adventurous.
And today is a fantastic episode answering those questions around betrayal. Since we all have gone through some sort of betrayal in our lives, you should really learn the different stages you go through afterwards and understand what can happen to us emotionally, physically, and mentally, which is exactly what Dr.
Debi Silber will be teaching us today. So let's jump into my conversation with Dr. Debi, Dr. Debi Silber is the founder of the post betrayal transformation Institute and as a holistic psychologist and a health mindset and personal development expert, the author of the number one best-selling book that unshakable woman or steps to rebuilding your body, mind, and life after a life crisis and her newest book trust again.
A recent PhD study on how we experienced. We pray all made three groundbreaking discoveries that changes how long it takes to heal. Thank you, Dr. Debi for coming onto the show.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:01:44] Well, thank you for having me looking forward to our conversation.
Bryan Carroll: [00:01:47] Me too, because, betrayal, I think everyone's experienced some form of betrayal, so diving deeper into it.
I'm really excited to hear kind of your thoughts around it and what we can do to recover from betrayal. but before we do that, let's learn a little bit more about you and what your background is.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:02:04] Sure. Well, I've been in health mindset, personal development since 1991, and as my life kept changing different.
Digs, you know, experiences, my business kept changing and then there was trauma and, you know, it was a horrible betrayal with my family and I didn't quite learn all the lessons I was meant to learn from that experience. So I got another opportunity this time. It was my husband. I was just devastated.
Like anybody who's been through it, shot's blindsided. And I was really desperate to understand how the mind works and why the. Why people do these things and how it can heal. So I enrolled in a PhD program, not what everybody would do coming off of the trail, but that's what I did. And, and it was time to do a study.
So a studied betrayal. What holds us back, what helps us heal and what happens to us physically, mentally, and emotionally, when the people closest to us lie, cheat and deceive, that study led to three groundbreaking discoveries, which changed my business, my health, my family, my life, everything.
Bryan Carroll: [00:03:03] Interesting.
So, You know, I think everyone, when you say the word betrayal, they, something pops up in their mind. They have some sort of idea what P trail is. Is there different kind of hidden forms of betrayal that are still considered betrayal, but we might not recognize as actual betrayal.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:03:21] Absolutely. You know, I defined it as the breaking of a spoken or unspoken rule and every relationship has rules.
Think about it. We had an agreement today. I was going to show up, we were going to have a conversation. And if I didn't, I would have betrayed you now that wouldn't have devastated, you know, but, but the way it works, the more we depend, the more we count it on the more we trust that person, the deeper, the betrayal.
So for example, a child who's completely dependent on their parents. And then they do something awful. That's going to have a much different impact than let's say your coworker taking credit for your idea, but it has so many forms. I mean, it could be your best friend telling your secret. It could be your sibling, you know, where it's like, okay.
When mom and dad are older, one day we'll be there for them. And then they're not, it could be a coach, a counselor, a therapist. Who you trust to help you through something? And then they do something awful. It could be, we could have self betrayal, you know, and self betrayal is really common with betrayal as well.
Bryan Carroll: [00:04:21] Interesting. So, You know, if it's someone that you trust a lot and they do something that betrays your trust is that type of betrayal, different than a lot of small betrayals that compound on itself,
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:04:33] it's a different, you know, it hits us differently. I call that one death by a thousand cuts. You know, that could be a series of micro betrayals, but they add up over time because it's eroding the very foundation that that relationship was built on.
So it could be a series of micro betrayals. It could be one shockingly painful realization, but whatever it is, it's that it's that shock that the person we trusted the person who said, you can count on me. You can trust me. I have your back. When that person, Betrays that trust without our awareness or consent.
It's one of the biggest shocks that absolutely affects us physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually.
Bryan Carroll: [00:05:19] So it is a lot more than just that emotional component of betrayal. There's other ways that it can manifest inside of you.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:05:25] Oh, very much. So, you know, there were the three discoveries that were made and one of them is that there is a collection of symptoms, so common to betrayal, physical, mental, and emotional, it's known as post betrayal syndrome.
And it's interesting in the last year and a half or so, we've had. But 8,700 plus people take the post betrayal syndrome quiz to see to what extent they're struggling. I mean, besides just the most amazing data on what people are struggling with. What's so interesting is we've all heard time heals all wounds.
I have the proof when it comes to betrayal, that's not true because people write things like there's a question that reads, is there anything else you'd like to share? I read every single one and people write things like. My betrayal happened 40 years ago, and I can still feel the hate. My betrayal happened 30 years ago.
I'm unwilling to trust. Again, my betrayal happened 10 years ago. It feels like it happened yesterday. I made betrayal only heals when we face it, feel it heal it. And I can, I can sniff out an unhealed the trail from a mile away. You see it so clearly in someone's health, in their work, in their relationships.
Bryan Carroll: [00:06:29] So the brain is kind of fascinating because it does a really good job of like downplaying stuff. So if you go through a traumatic event, then over the years, it kind of suppresses it. whether the feeling or like the sensation a little bit for betrayal. Is it the same process for that, or when you go back and you think about it, does all those, everything just come back and full force.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:06:52] You know, it's a, it's a great question because I see it. I see where, and I can run through. One of the other discoveries was that while we can stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime, many of us do, if we're going to heal, we will move through five stages and we know what happens. At each stage, physically, mentally, and emotionally.
And we know what it takes to move from one stage to the next, which means healing from betrayal is now predictable. But to answer your question, what you're talking about is what I see in a classic stage three. And this is where most people get stuck. And they can stay there for life. They haven't even, transformed.
I mean, they haven't, they haven't taken the most painful experience that they've, that they've ever had and use that to completely change everything about their relationships about themselves, but there's so, it's so much better than the shock and trauma of where they were that they actually think that that's good.
And I'm happy to go through the five stages, if that would, if that would help it, you'll see it play out, you know, as we move through the stages.
Bryan Carroll: [00:07:55] Yeah. Let's go through those stages. I think that would be very helpful.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:07:59] Sure. So, and this was so exciting when this showed up. I'll never forget my study chair saying, you know, Debi, I, I believe you've discovered a process here and, and the most exciting part of that was that now there's this predictable, sort of timeline of, of, okay.
Here's where I am. Here's what I have to do to get to the next. Stage. Whew. You know, so here are the stages. So the first was like a setup stage and, and I saw this with every single study participant me included. And if you imagine four legs of a table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.
What I saw with everybody was a real heavy lean on the physical and the mental and kind of neglecting the emotional and the spiritual. So what does that look like? Looks like we're really good at thinking and doing and not really prioritizing the feeling and being. But that's where intuition lies and we turn that down so real easy for that table to topple over in that scenario.
That's not to say if you're busy, it's a set up for betrayal, but it's just what I consistently saw. Stage two. This is the scariest stage. The shock were blindsided D day discovery day. And this is the breakdown of the body, the mind, the worldview. This is where we've ignited the stress response. So now we are headed for every single stress related symptom, illness, condition disease.
The mind is in a complete state of chaos and overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around what you just learned. It makes no sense. And your worldview is shattered. Your worldview is your mental model. This person is safe. These are the rules. Don't go there, you know, and in a moment it's totally shattered.
So this, this is where the bottom bottom's out. Terrifying. But think about it. If you were walking down the street and the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do? You'd grab hold of anything to stay safe and stay alive. That's stage three survival instincts emerge. The most practical stage, if you can't help me get out of my way, how will I survive this experience?
Who can I trust? Where do I go now? Here's the big trap, figuring out those things and surviving feels so much better than that shock and trauma. So we're like, whew. And here's where we start planting roots and the challenges, the longer we stay here, the harder it is to leave. And a few things happen now we're in this place and now we start getting these small self benefits from being there.
You get to be right. You get someone to blame. You get a target for your anger. You get a lot of sympathy from other people. You don't have to do the hard work of learning to trust again, do I trust you? Do I just forget it? And the longer you stay now, you're calling situations and people and circumstances to you that confirm that's where you belong.
And now you start saying things like, well, maybe I deserved it. Maybe now. You know, maybe this, maybe that, and I'll take it one step further. I did two TEDxes. The first one was on sabotage. How we sabotage ourselves. Here's where we use things like food. Drugs, alcohol work, TV, keeping busy reckless behavior.
So now what happens is we are so uncomfortable in this stage. We have no idea there's anything better out there for us. So we're medicating, we're numbing, wearables, we're distracting. And we put ourselves in this like sort of perpetual holding pattern. So that's stage three and people could stay there forever.
I mean, so with them, they may say, Oh my gosh, by betrayal happened 30 years ago. But you see, that's why they're stuck. If they're willing, willingness is a huge piece of this. If they're willing to give up all those benefits they were receiving and everything else grieve the loss, right? All, all of that, they can move to stage four, stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal here's where you realize.
Your old normal doesn't exist anymore. You cannot undo your betrayal, but you can control the meaning you make out of it and what you do with it. And this is like, if you've ever moved to a new house office, condo, apartment, whatever your stuff, isn't there. It's not quite cozy yet, but it's this new space you're settling into it.
It's going to be okay. And what I found so interesting about stage four was if you were to move, you don't necessarily take everything with you. You don't take the things that don't represent the version of you. You want to be in your, a new space. And here's where I saw change in friendships. If your friends weren't there for you, you've outgrown them right here.
Here's what you're creating new boundaries, new rules, this new version of you, or if they were indulging in low level gossip, whatever it was, you're done. You just don't fit. So people say to me all the time, but I've had these friends forever. Is it me? Yes, it is. You're transforming. Anyway, when you settled into this space, You're also turning down the stress response.
You're not healing just yet, but you're not creating the massive damage you are creating and stages two and stages three, when you're in the stage for awhile, it's comfortable. You're getting used to it and you're making it. Okay. You can move into the fifth, most beautiful stage. And this is healing.
Rebirth and a new worldview. Your body starts to heal. You've turned down the stress response. Now think about it. It's like you didn't have the bandwidth for eating well, exercise, self love, self care you were surviving. Now you do your mind. You're making new rules, new boundaries based on. What you've been through and you have a new world view based on your experience.
I remember the four legs of the table in the beginning. It was only about the physical and the mental. Now we're solidly grounded because we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual too. Those are the five stages.
Bryan Carroll: [00:13:47] There's a lot. I want to unpack there. And, I'm curious because, you know, we've heard a lot about the term, the new normal, which makes me wonder, can we have a betrayal of life, like different life circumstances, like right now everyone's life has been uprooted and changed.
Would that be kind of a betrayal of what we know and how we expect things to run? And now with this whole push of this is a new normal and all that stuff, is that kind of pushing us. Passing the stages too far, even if we're not ready for it.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:14:18] You know, I love that question because yes, you're right. It is a new normal and watch how you'll see how people show up here, because what we need to do is grieve the old it's real, but you will see people kicking and screaming.
To fight, to keep field, instead of embracing the new, this is where we are. And you will find, there are people who they will not accept it. They refuse to accept it. They will be talking about how this is the absolute worst thing, and it ruined this and it destroyed that. And life will never be the same.
And then there were the other people who were more flexible, right? Like a tree. If you're rigid, you break. If you're flexible, you bend. And there are those other people who say, okay, well, this is where I am now. I cannot change it. What can I do with this? Those are the ones who transform. Those are the ones who thrive while the other ones.
They're still fighting. They're fighting every step of the way.
Bryan Carroll: [00:15:12] So they get stuck.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:15:13] They do get stuck. And that's the biggest change between that stage three and that stage four. And it's also why there are so many people now numbing avoiding distracting because it's very painful. They don't have access to their old life and they're, they don't feel either capable or they're unwilling or whatever it is to embrace the new.
So they're kicking and screaming in the hallway, numbing themselves. Instead of saying, okay, what can I do with this? How can I make this the best experience? What can I do with this time I have, what can I create? Who can I
Bryan Carroll: [00:15:47] become? So it seems like that that third phase, the survival instincts, that seems to be where the most, chaotic or the most change can happen.
You can either sabotage yourself or you can rise up and grow from it. you can push all the people in your life away. You can find new people that you can trust. Just seems like there's a lot going on there. is that true?
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:16:08] There's a lot going on at every stage. and each one is transformative on its own.
But what I see so consistently is that the majority of people that I see so many people who, you know, they're not happy with their health, with their weight, with their finances, with their lifestyle, with their lives. So often. You think it's just because of what's going on now, I find consistently it could be a betrayal from decades ago and here's the, here's the biggest problem with that?
I mean, there were so many problems with that, but here's one that person who hurt you decades ago, does it no care or even remember what they did. And here you are living out 10, 20, 30, 40 plus years because of what someone did, you know, in this way is tragic. But people don't know and they think, well, this is as good as it gets, so I better get used to it.
No, it's not. You have two more stages you haven't even ventured into yet.
Bryan Carroll: [00:17:08] So is that third stage when you start working with people, is that kind of the, The one that's really tough to kind of work through where you have to admit, like this happened in this stage and then they need to make change from there.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:17:21] Yeah. This is, you know, there were two people who come into our community. There's the one who was recently betrayed and they're really, and it's really obvious. They're struggling from a betrayal. And then there are those people stuck in stage three. And what's so interesting about this group is they're.
They're so defensive. You know, so often where they'll come in, like typical person that come in their arms folded, like, I want to change. I'm like, no, you don't. No, you don't, you have way too much invested in your story. You just do. You know? And, and it's interesting because there were three groups in the study who didn't heal.
And one of the groups was that group who just refused to accept. They're betrayal and here's an analogy. And I use this one, I talked about this in my second TEDx. Do you have post betrayal syndrome, but you'll see it so clearly here. So imagine a house. Here's the difference between resilience, which is bouncing back and trauma and transformation.
So let's say the house needs a new boiler and you get a boiler that would be resilient. You're bringing it back. You're restoring where let's say it needs a new roof and you get a roof that's resilience, bringing it back. Here's trauma and transformation. A tornado comes by levels. Your house. new boilers, not going to fix it and a new roofs, not going to fix it right now.
Here's the thing. You have every right to stand there at the lot where your house used to be and say, Oh my gosh, look at this. The most terrible thing that's ever happened, and you'd be right. And you can call everybody, you know, over say, look, look at this, isn't this horrible. And they'd all agree. And you actually have the rights.
To mourn the loss of your house until your last breath. Right? However, if you choose to rebuild the house, there's nothing there. Why would you build the same house? When I give it everything, the old house didn't have, why not make it big? You know, the bigger, better, more beautiful, whatever it is to you.
Trauma is the catalyst for transformation. If you use it that way,
Bryan Carroll: [00:19:21] that's a really good way to put it. Yeah, I like that. When people come in and they're stuck in that three, four decades, and there's so combative and they don't want to believe that they're stuck here and they're in denial of it. How, what,
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:19:36] like,
Bryan Carroll: [00:19:37] what do you do to make them realize, like, if you don't get past this.
Look at, look at the grass, the greener grass on the other side here, but you need to want to make that change or that transformation. How do you work with that?
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:19:49] Because you know, the, I can show it to them pointed out so clearly, but I'll tell you one of the biggest obstacles I see with transformation is willingness.
If there is an unwillingness because you do, you have to give up your story. If there's an unwillingness, you're going to it's, you're going nowhere. And I've been working with thousands of people since 1991. I've seen this with weight. I've seen this with health. It's your it's it's become their identity.
We never want to be without an identity. So if that betrayal is who you've become. It's not going anywhere because who would you be without that story? You know, I just spoke to a woman the other day and her story. I mean, it happened 15 years ago and she was telling it to me. It was so well rehearsed that I know she must've set it up a hundred thousand times.
And I just, I listened, you know, and it's, but at what point, at what point, yes. You need to get it out. Yes you do. But at what point is it, you know, time to do something with it. And I see this with people who get divorced, like, for example, you hear them say I'm divorced, I'm divorced, I'm divorced, I'm divorced.
At what point are you single? You know what I mean? And, and, and the, the, the biggest challenge again, is they have every right. They have every right to hold onto their story. But what they don't realize is what they're holding at Bay because of it, you know, think about it. It's your, yes, you have your story, but you have such a better story.
When you, when you give them you become the hero or the heroine of your story become a role model. Like for example, I had a very powerful story. The most important people in my life betrayed me. I Weber. I was like, Hmm. You know, what if I don't do something good with this, it's just like a bad game of hot potato.
You know, if I, if I heal from this, I'm taking everybody with me. And, and what if, because of that, you know, we open up the PBT post betrayal transformation Institute and the book and the podcast and the TEDx and all of these things, because that's a way better story. And then, you know, that I. He with healing and rebuilding.
I mean, that's always a choice. Like I healed myself and moved on with my family and if the situation lends itself and you're willing and you want to, you build something totally new, but the person who hurt you and I married my husband again as two totally different people. I mean, it's just a better story.
Bryan Carroll: [00:22:13] Yeah. I was going to ask on the other side of betrayal, if you're the B Tre E I guess, and you recognize like what you did was wrong. Is there a different stages for that person or is that like a betrayal of self that they then have to work through?
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:22:28] It it's, it takes a tremendous amount of work and not being on that side ever.
I, I can't say what it feels like, but seeing it in our community and just seeing what my husband went through, there was a tremendous amount of shame and remorse and regret and, and. Realization of who they become. You know, I, I see that betrayal reveals who you really are or who you've temporarily become, and they could either shock you into waking up and realizing all you've lost.
Or shocking everybody around you realizing, you know, who they're really with or married to. And, and with many people like with my family, there was no change was going to happen. So the only thing that was going to happen was I had to heal and move on. But there are those instances, like with my husband, when you lose the only things that matter to you.
And he was like, what the heck did I do? And, and, you know, and did profound work to, to heal and rebuild with me, with my kids, with my friends. He even called all my friends and apologized.
Bryan Carroll: [00:23:40] Yeah. Yeah. That actually, that brings up a really good point, because like you said, when you're in that, phase three, stage three, and you're telling everybody like, look what happened to me and all that type of stuff, then the person that did the betraying.
They have a lot more to make up for it, not just to the person they've betrayed, but that person's entire story.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:24:01] Absolutely. And, and, you know, it's, It's interesting because now here I have the new book trust again. I mean, we sold out in just the pre-sales. It was, which is crazy, but obviously there's a, there's a need for this.
And when I was writing this book, I sat my whole family down. I said, guys, the stories in there and. Get ready. And it wasn't to throw anybody under the bus or make anybody uncomfortable. And I thought I was expecting all, come on mom and, and expecting resistance from my husband. And what was so interesting was they were, they were proud of me.
And my biggest supporter was him. He said, you know what, this is going to help so many people and so many betrayers hopefully, you know, it's it's trauma when that happens. It's trauma. Well-served
Bryan Carroll: [00:24:47] right. Yeah, cause then everyone's growing.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:24:50] That's it?
Bryan Carroll: [00:24:51] Yep. Well, is there a final things that you want to touch on when it comes to betrayal and making sure, like people know that there is support and there's ways to get past that stage three?
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:25:01] Yeah. There's so much support. I mean, we created the, you know, the only community that I know of that's research-based based on what. 8,700 plus people said they need what my study proved we need. and it's all there between the support live classes with my certified coaches. I'm in there all the time, the programs walking you through.
So there, you know, it is available. and, and if someone's resistant, I would just invite you to, to ask yourself, What's the downside of healing, you know, what's, what's, what's the problem with that. And what's the benefit of staying stuck. But what I would say, even more importantly, this is something it's a mantra.
And if you have to say it a hundred million times until you believe it's worth it, even though it happened to you, it's not about you, it's not about you. And although someone else may have learned or not their lesson at your, it's not about you. It's just not. So use the opportunity to rebuild yourself into the most healthy, healed, whole version of you that you never dreamt possible.
Bryan Carroll: [00:26:09] Is there any betrayals that you would say is completely unforgivable or is that dependent upon what the person believes?
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:26:17] I think so much of it has to do with. How you were raised your own belief systems, you know? So, so it wouldn't be right for me to say, like, for example, there was one of the groups who did not heal was the group where the betrayer had no consequences and they tried to turn the other cheek, whether it was out of fear very often it was out of religious.
Due to religious reasons, financial fear, whatever they try to, just turn the other cheek that you tell that to your broken heart. All I saw in those, in that group was not only was there a further deterioration of the relationship by far hands down, that group was the most physically sick. So yeah, so, you know, I mean, I get it.
If that's your belief system and that's what you signed up for, I would never say what's right or wrong. I mean, I just know what the study showed.
Bryan Carroll: [00:27:08] And then my final question for you is what do you do each day to improve your own health?
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:27:13] you know, I, I drink my own Kool-Aid if I, you know, I, I'm a real, I'm a real believer in, when your T your book is called trust again.
And when you're teaching people how to heal from betrayal, you can't be anything other than honest, 24 seven. So I just, I do what I can. So this is what I'm showing up in front of people that I don't have to question. Wait a second. Am I really saying that I'm doing this work? Am I really doing that? Yes, I am.
I just couldn't. I never want to worry about that whole, was it fraud, imposter syndrome, you know, so I just do my own work, so I stay honest,
Bryan Carroll: [00:27:44] so honest and trust. That brings up a very interesting question. If, if you know that saying something truthfully and honestly will hurt someone, is that worth saying
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:27:56] when you're saying it lovingly compassionately, empathetically.
You know, I really believe if not saying it is really causing, you to, to not live authentically, it's not the right way to do, but if you are going to share something, say it with the most, kindness, love and compassion to
Bryan Carroll: [00:28:16] can. Perfect. Well, can you tell us a little bit about where people can find more about you and do you have a quiz that people can take as well?
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:28:24] Yeah, the best best thing is just to take the quiz because the post betrayal syndrome quiz. Cause you'll see to what extent you're struggling. You may think you're healed and whole and all good, but you may find you wherever you are stuck in that stage three. So the best place to find that is just the PVT.
As in post betrayal transformation, the PBT institute.com forward slash quiz.
Bryan Carroll: [00:28:44] Perfect. And we'll have the link in the show [email protected] slash one three, four. Well, Dr. Debi, thank you so much for coming on and talking about betrayal. And like I mentioned, it seems like everyone has some form of betrayal that they've gone through in their life.
So I think this is going to be very helpful.
Dr. Debi Silber: [00:29:02] I'm so glad. Thank you so much. And it's people like you that give people like me, an Avenue to just share this kind of information. Thank you.
Bryan Carroll: [00:29:10] Listening to Dr. Debi talk. I could think of lots of people I know who are stuck at stage three after experiencing some big betrayals.
And once you recognize the stages, then it is really easy to see it happening. Being stuck there really does shape up your future. I know some people that have turned to drug and alcohol abuse to get through the pain, and I know others who refuse to trust anyone because of what they experience. So if you know someone who might be stuck in stage three, Share this episode with them and then leave us a rating on your podcast player.
Next week, Dr. Heather Manley will be on the show. Let's go learn who she is and what we'll be talking about. I am here with Dr. Heather Manley. Hey, Dr. Heather, what is one unique thing about you that most people don't know?
Dr. Heather: [00:29:55] I think a lot of people don't understand. Don't know that I was really into wildlife conservation and I worked with Daphne Sheldrick in who's the elephant lady in Nairobi, Kenya for about nine months.
Bryan Carroll: [00:30:08] Wow. How was that experience?
Dr. Heather: [00:30:10] It was incredible. My, you know, also saw the gorillas in Rwanda. So wildlife was a huge part of my past.
Bryan Carroll: [00:30:20] And what will we be learning about in our interview together?
Dr. Heather: [00:30:23] We will be really focusing on the menstrual cycle and how it's a vital sign and that we need to be looking at that more.
So with our teenage girls,
Bryan Carroll: [00:30:35] And what are your favorite foods or nutrients that you think everyone should get more of in their diet?
Dr. Heather: [00:30:41] We need more fiber. And I think we're dehydrated. I think we need to be drinking more water and iced herbal teas and herbal teas, and more fiber like nuts and seeds and, you know, dark leafy green vegetables that that's kind of boring, but like nuts and seeds and keep hydrated.
Bryan Carroll: [00:31:01] And what are your top three health tips for anyone who wants to improve their overall wellness?
Dr. Heather: [00:31:06] We talk about this in our, in our, in our talk too, but like just awareness on how food makes you feel. I think that's really, really important that we forget to think about. And I typically have people challenge themselves to color up each plate that they, eat. So even with breakfast, if you love cereal, what do you, how are you going to color it up? Like some berries, you know, they're a good way to do that. And then of course doing contrast hydrotherapy. So it helps to increase circulation. So when you're in your hot, hot shower and it with cold water
Bryan Carroll: [00:31:39] education about our own health and how our bodies work is so important.
And unfortunately, a lot of times kids don't get the information they need to really understand what's going on. So next week's episode will be a good one for kids to hear. So until then, keep climbing to the peak of your health.
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