133- Strategies to Improve How We Communicate with Cynthia Kane

Bryan Carroll: [00:00:15] have you or someone, you know, ever had communication issues in the relationships. The way we communicate with each other is starting to become a lost art. As we move away from direct communication with someone to a more passive way via the devices in our hands.

It's actually pretty amazing to me how difficult it is for people to communicate with others about important topics. My wife and I are very open with each other, and we talk about anything that comes up. But we've also realized that isn't always the case in most relationships, which is why today's episode will be about strategies to improve your communication with others.

What's up everyone. I'm Bryan Carroll and I'm here to help people move more, eat well and be adventurous. And Cynthia Kane will be teaching us how to have difficult conversations with others in a healthy way. This is actually pretty timely as we are nearing elections and holidays. Which is a prime time for disputes to happen between family members.

With all of that being said, let's jump into my conversation with Cynthia Kane. Cynthia Kane's goal is to help enhance the quality of your life and relationships by improving how you communicate with yourself, others, and your environment. She has authored many books and has a few different courses and training programs available as well.

Thank you, Cynthia, for coming onto the show. 

Cynthia Kane: [00:01:34] Thank you happy to be here. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:01:36] And I'm really excited to chat with you because you focus a lot with different ways for people to communicate and whatnot. And, I think right now is a really good time to talk about that subject. But before we dive into that, can you tell us more about who you are a little bit about your background and how did you, become so involved with communication?

Cynthia Kane: [00:01:56] So I, I used to be a, Pretty bad communicator. I was very passive, aggressive, very reactionary, very judgmental. I had a lot of difficulty in silence. I really felt like I needed to fill the space and just talk, talk, talk to feel comfortable. and I. I really led so much of my interaction with my emotion and I had, I didn't know that that was how I was interacting.

I really thought that this was just kind of like the way things were or the way people did interact. and. I had. So I had been with my first love for about seven and a half years, and he and I had grown up together and we decided that we would go our separate ways and that the universe would bring us back together at the time was right for us to connect back together.

And it did. And we talked all through the night about. The things that didn't work through our relationship. And a lot of it was miscommunication. A lot of it was misunderstanding. A lot of it was my, reactions to things, my exaggerations to things. and we really vowed to be in each other's lives again.

And then four months after that, he passed away unexpectedly. And my whole world, I mean, my whole world just blew to pieces really. So the person who knew me the most in the world who knew me the best in the world, was no longer. And I felt like I was just completely blank and empty and had so many questions and was really, wanting all of this.

Pain and heartache and sadness to go away. And I couldn't, I couldn't escape it. And, you know, friends and family were so loving and so generous and all they wanted to do is help, but nothing was helping. And I really realized in that moment that if I wanted to feel better, if I wanted to not necessarily die along with him, I was going to have to figure out how to take care of myself.

It was my responsibility suddenly. I was like, Oh my gosh, this is my responsibility to take care of myself and to find a way to be here and enjoy it. And, nobody was going to come in and take away all the suffering, which is just what I wanted someone to do. 

So I, I then went on, you know, this journey to really figure out how to feel better in the world.

And. Reading books and courses and lectures in retreats and everything I was learning was wonderful, but I, I couldn't really embody the things that I was learning. I, it all felt very abstract. and what I was noticing though, that was that it was coming back to communication. So if I really wanted to change how I was interacting, With the world, I was going to have to change how I was connecting with myself and then how I was connecting with other people. And so a friend of mine sent me a, a message to a meditation and writing workshop when I lived in New York and at the Shambala Institute. And I didn't know much about any of it, but I went anyhow and that is what brought me to. Understand, how to move forward. Right? So that weekend really changed my life.

It's where I was introduced to meditation, which was extremely uncomfortable, in the beginning. And, but what was amazing was. To feel a shift happening. Although I couldn't tell you what it was in the moment. I knew that something was moving for me and that felt incredible. And then, and then that's where I learned the elements of right.

Speech in Buddhism, which are to tell the truth. Don't exaggerate don't gossip and use helpful language. And once I learned those, I thought, Holy cow, here it is. These are my guidelines. This is what I can, I can go off of. So. That's really, what happened for me because the next day I was into this experiment of, can I, can I talk to myself in a kind honest and helpful way?

and so this is where this practice began for me. And it's a practice that I created and it's called the cane intentional communication method. but I started really changing the way that I interacted with myself and with other people. 

And. The world opened up really in that moment, I was having, you know, more connection with people.

I was more open, less judgmental, less reactive. I was excited to have conversations with people. It's difficult conversations with people, right. which was not like me before. I was really afraid of confrontation and criticism and all of that. so everything really started shifting and changing for me.

And then I started. sharing it with others and it started changing the way that they were interacting in the way that they were communicating in their relationships. and you know, their relationships at home with their kids at work. and then I, you know, the more I was writing about it, the more.

people were seeing it. And then, editor at my publishing house reached out to see if I'd be interested in turning it into a book. And so I created how to communicate like a Buddhist and then talk to yourself like a Buddhist came out. And then the last book that just came out in April is how to meditate like a Buddhist.

And so, that's how kind of the books came through. And then from there the courses, and. There's a platform called daily own, which has, my courses on it. And now, you know, over 50,000 people have taken those courses and then that then led people to want to work with me directly. So there's a training program and then there's an instructor training program.

So it's all kind of, grown from, from this place. This is how it all began really. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:07:56] So earlier you were talking about, when you separated from your first love, and you both kind of went on your way at some point in there, you figured out that a big piece of the issues you guys had was, a communication.

And you said a lot of it was from your, and when he came back, you were able to work through that. How do you, Figure that out. How do you figure out that there's a communication issue and who the communication issue is more on, whether it's you or someone else, or how do you figure that out? 

Cynthia Kane: [00:08:28] Yeah, so I think I would go as far as to say that most issues that you have are communication issues. because everything we do is in relation to. Ourselves or in relation to someone else, right. Or in relation to our environment. And so we are communicating at all times, in, in connection at all times. so I think that first, you, you really start to become aware of your language and if. You're noticing that when you're interacting with others, the way that you're speaking is causing someone else to, become passive aggressive, causing somebody else to lash out, causing somebody else to shut down or walk away.

If you start to see that your language is creating that reaction in somebody, then you know that there's something about the way that you are interacting or the way that you are expressing yourself. That is making it. That, so that the other person is not feeling safe or comfortable in the interaction.

And so that's a sure way to know right there that it's something that you're doing that is causing this suffering in somebody else. Right. And that is a communication issue because anytime someone is expressing themselves in a way that promotes more discomfort or fear or anxiety or hurt, that is a communication issue.

Hmm. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:09:52] Interesting. And so, you know, you're talking about, you gotta work on your own communication is part of the issue also the way that people take that information or do we need to be better about how we present ourselves or our information to other people? 

Cynthia Kane: [00:10:07] So it's knowing really what your responsibility is.

In a conversation and interaction. So it is taking more responsibility for your words, your reactions, your facial expressions, the way you're using silence, your body language. And knowing that that is, that is all that you are responsible for it for you, right? The other person is responsible for their reactions, their language, how they're using silence, their facial expressions, their body language.

That's what they're responsible for. The only thing you have in common. Is the health of the conversation itself. So when you start to notice that it's going into a place that is hurtful or potentially harmful that's, then your role is to keep the integrity of the conversation intact. So it's there for you to be able to say, Oh, Hey, this isn't going in a good direction for either of us, right.

Let's either start again. Or, you know, maybe we can come back to this, but right now this is just no longer helpful. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:11:09] Hmm. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. now I don't know, what you've seen, but I know a lot of people have a hard time bringing up different topics with their significant others or people that are important in their life.

how do you start. Opening up those pathways to have those type of conversations and be able to have constructive conversations without, you know, pushing too far and pushing people over the edge. 

Cynthia Kane: [00:11:35] I think it's important too, to know what it is that you want from. Conversation. Right. So the hard piece when we're expressing something that's difficult is that we don't often really take the time beforehand to truly think about what we want the outcome to be of this interaction. Right? What is it, why is it that we need to say something? and. What is the benefit of it? Is it going to cause less suffering for me? Is it going to cause us suffering for the other person? Right. And when I say suffering here, I mean it, you know, sadness, discomfort, overwhelmed stress, all of that is suffering. Right. so I think knowing before you have a difficult conversation with somebody, really what it is that you're asking for. Is really important. because oftentimes we'll just kind of go into it and just share more about what happened, what wasn't working, what didn't work, what the person didn't do, what, what we're not seeing, where what we really want to process beforehand is to focus on that, which can change, right?

Not focusing on that, which can't. And so often. If we can see that before we go into these conversations, the conversations then have more of a chance of actually thriving and resolving themselves. and it's just, it's really important to kind of go in thinking more about the possibility of what this conversation can bring into your life and change for you and your partner.

and just sitting in that will help you move through the fear of. Getting stuck in not saying anything because we're scared of the reaction or, you know, what the person is going to say, or, you know, our needs not being met in those types of things. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:13:35] Yeah. And, you know, another interesting thing about communication is there's always hot topics.

Right. And, we hear about that a lot around Thanksgiving. Like, don't talk about these three topics at the dinner table. Otherwise it's going to blow up, but, You know, right now there's a lot of hot topics going on right now with, politically health, related, different, you know, how to handle different situations.

And it creates very strong opinions one way or the other. And it seems like a lot of people, They have a hard time opening up conversations because once those opinions get in, embedded into their minds, they don't want to look at all sides, right. Or even have those conversations with someone else.

So when people have such differing opinions and people are butting heads, how do you. Change the way that you communicate so that you can have more of an open conversation and just see where the other side is coming from. 

Cynthia Kane: [00:14:32] So in those situations, I, it, it really is about first awareness, right? really being aware that that is what's happening, that.

there's no movement that you're just kind of that ping pong table, right? Like the back and forth is going on in, there's no exit here. You're just on that hamster wheel. So first there has to be an awareness that that's actually happening. and then once you see that it's happening because you're seeing it.

It is now your responsibility to keep the integrity of the conversation intact. Right. So now it's okay. How can I, see this situation differently? I'll oftentimes what that means to open up a conversation is to soften in the moment and to talk to yourself in the moment to allow yourself to basically say, okay, just stay open.

See if you can sit through what this person is saying and allow this person to have there. reactions, their opinions, their beliefs. Look at this person as someone who is human, who has something that they want to be expressing, that they want to share, that they may, you know, that they want to feel seen and they want to feel heard and see them as somebody that you want to support.

And you want to be helpful too. Right. So really you're you hold the space for it, somebody else to share, and then it's not your responsibility to try to fix them or to try to convince them otherwise. so in the moment for you, it's reminding yourself, okay. I'm not. I'm not here to try to push this person to see the way that I see.

I'm not here to try to force them to believe what I believe I'm here to learn more about them. And this is where they stand. And now it's my turn to just potentially say, wow, I never thought of it that way. Right. That's really, that's really interesting that that's, you know, that, that's what you see because I see something very differently.

So in the moment, it's really understanding that, you know, the past experiences, education, all those things is what you're really seeing in each other. Right. so. Reminding yourself that this person's experiences in this person's education and this person's, you know, really their, I mean their day to day has given them these insights.

This is where they come from. This is their belief, right? It's not your responsibility to change it. So it's a lot of self-talk in those moments of staying open, allowing the other person to. To speak. And then instead of jumping right in and in, in going against them to see if you can practice like, engaging with what it is that they're saying in a helpful way.

Bryan Carroll: [00:17:18] Yeah, I can see how it takes practice to be able to kind of step back and not engage in those type of a heated conversations, because it is very easy for people to try and shove their opinion down your throat. Or you try to shove your opinion down someone else's throat, especially when someone's.

Complete polar opposite. You want them to see the lights that you have available for them, right. so it definitely, yeah. Taking a step back, being aware of, okay. I'm about to. Ruined this conversation by trying to shove something down their throat that they're not open to receiving. Yeah. so yeah, it's definitely, it's interesting looking at that and it would be really hard.

I think for a lot of people that do that. So, do you have like any steps to, For people that they could take to just start getting some practice with this too. you know, maybe try out if you're in a heated conversation like this, maybe do blank first and just see what the response is between yourself and what the person that you're talking with.

do you have anything like that? 

Cynthia Kane: [00:18:25] Yeah, so the, I mean the first piece is to really start to become aware of yourself. Right. So to become aware of what's happening in your body, in these types of interactions, because that's truly where that's truly the cue for you to know that you are about to, you know, lash out at this person that you are about to get passive aggressive with this person that you are about to just roll your eyes and walk away from this person.

Right. So. Becoming familiar with what is happening in your body, in those moments is really important because that's how, you know, then when it comes up, you come in 

and you start talking to yourself in that moment. You're like, Oh, there it is. Okay. I feel that feeling. I feel that my throat is closing up right now.

I feel that my chest is getting really tight. Okay. I am like really angry right now. I am very frustrated right now. Something is not sitting well with me. All right. That's okay. That's fine. Just take a deep breath. Come into the present moment. What are my feet doing? What are my hands doing? What's my belly doing? And then just by doing that little practice, you'll be able to center yourself a little bit, ground yourself, more in kind of a relaxed state so that then you can look at the other person, right. And you can see them through friendly eyes, see them through the eyes of, okay, how can I be helpful to this person?

Right. How can I see this person as somebody that I care for and that I respect and that I want to support. and, but it's taking that moment that the acronym I use, because it's actually the process is that in that moment, when you notice the sensation coming, just say, soften. Just say soften to yourself. and then that's what we want to do in these moments. We want to soften to ourselves because so much of what these moments do is they force us outward, but really the person who needs to be soothed the most in these moments is ourselves. So it's like, you want to tend to yourself first. You want to be like, okay, I'm frustrated.

Feel you got to, we've got this. Let's just breathe through this. Let's just like, look down at our feet. Okay. Here I am. I'm here. Put my attention on the present moment and then be like, okay, now I'm going to see how I can engage with this moment. Hmm. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:20:43] Now, what would you do in a conversations? If I will say that you're in a conversation, you're in a heated debate with someone, and then you recognize, okay, I need to soften.

I need to calm down and maybe take a break from this conversation, but the person that you engaged with. They still want to keep going. So how do you, you know, walk away safely from a conversation or a debate like that without completely pissing off the other person that could lead to other issues?

Cynthia Kane: [00:21:11] Yeah. So you can do one of two things. One, 

you can allow the person first, just allow the person to finish, right? Whatever it is that they need to express and whatever it is that they need to say, and your role there is to hold the space for that. Not to judge it, not to, try to change it, but just see if you can practice holding space for it.

And then when they're finished for you to say, you know, I mean the context will be different in each scenario, but, for you to say, you know, right now I'm having a really difficult time keeping, you know, keeping, this conversation helpful. I'm having a really difficult time. Because I want to speak to you in a way that's kind and honest, and compassionate, but right now I'm not able to do it.

So in this moment, it's best for me. If I just take some time, you know, and go to the, like go to the bathroom or wherever you are. Right. or for me to take some time so that we can have this conversation later, if we need to have this conversation later, 

Bryan Carroll: [00:22:13] Yeah, I can see, you know, a significant others or anything, how the bickering starts to.

You know, escalate and it's sometimes, you know, one person might try to back out, whereas other ones like I need to finish my point. 

Cynthia Kane: [00:22:28] Well, I, I really believe in letting people finish their point. Right. The thing is, is that everyone wants to be heard. And so the more you can allow, give somebody that the less of the pushing you're going to get, right.

If the other person feels heard. All is well, right. And so you let the person finish their point and you acknowledge their point. Right. You acknowledge, and you can say, you know, like, I, I understand that that's really frustrating. Right? I understand that, you know, you were really looking forward to that and now we're not able to do it.

Bryan Carroll: [00:23:06] So what's the point of that? Having hard conversations, are you trying to get someone to. Understand things from your point of view, are you trying to get someone on your side with your point of view or is it just good to have these open discussions with each other and try to like, you know, work through these different situations?

Cynthia Kane: [00:23:28] So, I mean, the point of difficult conversations is to help yourself and other stuff suffer less. That's the point, really? And that means that, you they're essential conversations. For you to reach, you know, the outcome that you want and for the other person to feel comfortable as well. So it's almost as if, you know, the, the conversation is really to help move.

Both people forward so that you're no longer stuck in something that's not working, or you're no longer a focus on what can't be changed, what can't move. And instead it's really about focusing on what's happened, but what each person needs to be able to move forward. 

Hmm. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:24:20] And then, when you're having conversations, do you have any tips or tricks to make, like an apology or something similar like that, to make that conversation more sincere.

Like I know one of my, the biggest triggers that just really irritates me is when someone says, I'm sorry, but, and then it's like, well, are you actually sorry? Cause now you're just trying to justify stuff. So is there, different like tips or tricks to navigate? The way you present, something that you're saying.

Cynthia Kane: [00:24:47] Yeah. Yes. So the I'm sorry, but, so there's this thing that I call the butt pattern, which is basically you want to practice taking, but out of your, out of your vocabulary in a lot of ways, because all it does is it, it negates everything that you said before, so you can go out and you can say. Gosh, I had the best meal ever, but the air conditioning was blowing and it was so cold.

It's like, you know, substitute bringing and instead of butts. So, I mean, even in the instance of saying, I'm sorry, you can say, I'm sorry, and I, you know, you could go from there, but normally you want to substitute and for, but, but with, with saris, I mean, honestly, I'm sorry, that's it. Like period. and the biggest piece with the I'm sorry is in the moment that something happens and you are aware that it is not going well, and you are aware that you have done something that has bothered or affected somebody else to own it in the moment.

Right. And so it's really declaring in the moment I am so sorry. I'm extremely frustrated right now. I'm really stressed out right now. I'm not. Connecting with you in the way that I want to. I am so sorry that that happened. I'm so sorry. I did not mean for that to happen. Right. That's it very concise, very short.

Very sweet. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:26:13] Yeah. And I would assume that would go into, you know, justification of, different actions or words that you might use. Like people want a lot of people like to dig deeper. So if someone tells you to do something and you say, no, and you don't have to continue with that and say, no, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

No is a complete sentence. 

Cynthia Kane: [00:26:33] That's it? I mean, explaining yourself is not necessary because if people are interested, they will ask. Right. So it's really about being conscious and concise with your language, and really specific with your language because the more specific you are, the less there's room for any confusion, right?

Perfect. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:26:53] D is there any others, specific things you want to make sure that, we understand when it comes to communication and different things that we can do to improve our own communication, 

Cynthia Kane: [00:27:02] just that it's possible to change the way that you communicate? a lot of people don't think that it is and.

It's fascinating, because it really just takes, you know, a few minutes a day to really start becoming more intentional with the way that you're showing up in, you know, with yourself and with others to start seeing a difference, in, in your relationships. and I think also, the other piece is just knowing that, There is so much to be, 

like so much that will be brought into your life from.

Simply softening in those moments or from simply, you know, paying more attention to how your words are affecting other people. you will really start to notice that it just takes one person to affect a conversation and therefore to change the conversation, because if you start showing up differently and you start interacting differently, other people can't interact with you in the same way that they've been interacting with you.

So they too have to either rise to your level or potentially move. Move on. Right. So just knowing that, your words are valuable and they're powerful, right? Hmm. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:28:16] And do you recommend people have like full open communication with their significant, significant others? Or is it healthy to have some things that you don't talk about?

What what's your idea with? 

Cynthia Kane: [00:28:29] I think, I mean, the 

number one thing is to always be honest. but there are things that, I, I don't think it's, I don't think it's about. saying, okay. Here's everything right. I think it's about knowing what's helpful, right? So, if you are in a relationship and, someone and you think maybe I need to share with my partner, past relationships or things that have happened, that is definitely wonderful to do.

And you also want to think. You know, is it helpful? Is this going to, you know, is this something that my partner will, find helpful or not? And if it's not helpful for them, and if it's going to cause more suffering for them and more suffering for you, then that's when you don't share it. Right. Is that idea?

Bryan Carroll: [00:29:22] well, Cynthia, one of the questions I always like to ask people is what do people do each and every day to improve their own health? And I would love to know if you have any specific practices, but I would also love. If you share the one or two things that you do every single day to improve the way that you communicate with others as well.

Cynthia Kane: [00:29:41] yeah, so I, so 

for me, what's really important. Meditation is very important for communication, because the way that we are in meditation, I believe is the way that we are in communication in terms of. You know, you're in meditation, you have all these thoughts, lots of distractions, and you get caught up and then you're like, Oh, hi, see you.

I'm going to come back to the present moment. It's the same thing in our conversations. you know, we get distracted. We're thinking about where we're thinking about, we're thinking about what the other person's thinking about. And then we get to say, Oh, there I am. I'm over here. Let me come back. Let me focus.

Right. so meditation is a big piece of. my practice is, the other practice I do is I set intentions every day for my communication. So in the morning, I touch base with myself to basically ask, okay, what do I want to practice today? Do I want to practice? Being open. Do I want to practice being patient?

Do I want to, practice compassion? Do I want to practice non-judgment do I want to practice speaking kindly to myself? Do I want to practice, you know, allowing others to be as they are? So I set up very early in the morning, what my intention is for the day and that acts really as my anchor throughout the day.

So I. And more aware of when I'm not doing those things so that then I can say, Oh, okay, there I am. I'm not doing those things. It's time for me to come back to what it is that my intention is for this day. so those are the. Communication practices that are really important, I think daily. and then just overall, I also think that, you know, overall wellness and health in general is so important for communication.

because if we are stressed out, if we are overwhelmed, if we are burned out, if we are any of those things, our communication we're short, we're cranky. you know, we're reactionary, all the things. So. I really think it's important to, you know, take care of all of it. So I think exercising is really important.

I think eating well is super important and sleep. Sleep is very, very important. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:31:47] Yeah. If you want to, if you want to get super combative, super combative and grouchy really quick, don't get sleep. Don't get asleep. Yeah, 

Cynthia Kane: [00:31:57] yeah, 

Bryan Carroll: [00:31:59] yeah. Yeah, there's a reason hangry became a thing. So people can find more about [email protected].

can you also talk about some of the programs and, books that you have as well? 

Cynthia Kane: [00:32:12] Yeah, so, my books are how to communicate like a Buddhist. Talk to yourself like a Buddhist and how to meditate like a Buddhist. You can find them anywhere where books are sold. bookshop or Amazon has them as well.

and, I have, so there's a platform called daily own, which is a wellness platform. And on there I have two courses how to communicate like a Buddhist and talk or turn off the enemy in your mind, which is all about how we talk to ourselves. and those are great places. To start their audio courses, their daily action in terms of implementation.

So you really start to, practice the practice. And then if you're really interested in this becoming your default way of interacting and becoming really less reactive and being in those difficult moments where you feel all that heat rising, and instead of giving over to the emotion, you're able to really come back into.

The present moment and speak in a kind honest and helpful way. then working with me is a great option and that's in the intentional communication training program. It's a 14 week program, where we get to work together and to really move you out of this default way of communicating and into a more, you know, easy, relaxed, more peaceful way of interacting.

and, and yeah, so that's. That's something to check out. You can apply by going to the websites and decane.com. and then we can hop on the phone and we can chat and see if it's the right fit. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:33:42] Awesome, Cynthia. Well, thank you so much for coming on and talking about different ways we can communicate.

Think right now is the perfect opportunity for stuff like this, like is that there's always hot topics and, Thanksgiving is just a right around the corner. So that's when families usually come together and that's when. Stuff can get interesting. So thank you so much as you go into the holidays, are you going to use any of these strategies to communicate better with your family?

I know that it's tough to recognize that other people might not think and believe in the exact same things you do, but that is part of the human experience. We are at an interesting time where people are getting pigeonholed into different groups, just because they don't agree with us. And I think the perfect example to see that happen is to go onto any local groups and look at posts based around politics.

You'll see tons of name calling bullying and poor behavior. No one would want their kids to see. But I think that is because we are losing our ability to manage how we interact with others. And we've lost our ability to agree, to disagree and still be friends. Anyways, I'll get off my soap box and we'll go learn about my guests, dr.

Debbie stillbirth. For next week's episode, I am here with dr. Debbie silver. Hey, dr. Debbie, what is one unique thing about you that most people don't know? let's see.

Debi: [00:35:03] I think probably the most impressive thing I hear is I have four kids in six dogs. That's a busy household. What's more busy, the kids or the dogs, you know, the, the dogs keep us really entertained. And what will we be learning about in our interview together? How betrayal is one of the most devastatingly painful experiences and what we can do to heal. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:35:29] And then do you have any foods or nutrients that you think everyone should get more of in their diet? You know, I start with a shake every single morning.

Debi: [00:35:38] We have our own line of shakes and it's just a variety I'm in, I'll start a shake with, I'll put in either some kind of berries or some kind of something. And I feel like if the rest of the day doesn't go, well, I just really jam packed. My morning was something powerful. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:35:55] And then what are your top three health tips for anyone who wants to improve their overall wellness 

sleep?

Meditation laughing only three 

only three. Okay. 

Debi: [00:36:09] I have a list, but okay. Let's go 

Bryan Carroll: [00:36:11] there. This episode with Debbie is a fantastic one. And while we were recording, I could think of lots of people I know who are stuck in the different stages of betrayal. So until next time climb to the peak of your health.