118- Sacred Cow and Meat’s Impact on the Planet with Diana Rodgers

Bryan Carroll: [00:00:15] Hey everyone, Bryan Carroll here, and I am here to help people move more. Eat well and be adventurous. And today is a special release day for this episode, because we are trying to get this episode out before the release of the book sacred cow, which releases tomorrow, July 14th.

And if you preorder it now, then you can get access to all the preorder bonuses that they have available for the book. So, if you want to preorder, then go to summitforwellness.com/sacredcow. And that, that will take you directly to where you can order the book. And then if you go to the sacred cow website and submit your receipt.

Then you can get access to all the bonus material that they have for the book. So what is sacred cow? Sacred cow is put together by Diana Rogers and Rob Wolf, and they wanted to take a look at a lot of the claims made by Mary vegan based documentaries that have been coming out. And a lot of the propaganda around.

The meat industry and how it impacts the environment. And also they wanted to see is a meat necessary for human consumption. And if so, what type of nutrients can people receive from meat? Now, when you look at like the vegan documentaries, what the health and Gamechangers and those types of shows that have come out in the past, you can look at the backers of those and that there's been millions and millions of dollars backing put into those by companies like me, alternative companies and pro vegan companies that.

That benefit financially from these type of documentaries. And, when it comes to Diana Rogers and Rob Wolf, they don't have that type of backing. They don't have, any products or anything that they're making millions off of it. They just were really curious about whether the information that's been shared is true.

And if the meat industry really does have huge impacts on environment, So, obviously they're both coming from their own biases that humans are omnivores. So they are looking through that a lens and checking to see. What kind of impact that is going to have. and then especially the impact of removing meat completely from the, human diet, what that would do as well.

But they're really trying to eliminate conflict of interest. And when you look at a lot of the other documentaries, like I said, there's a lot of conflict of interest that can get in the way in which, you can take different science and different research and really twist it to your benefit. If there is some type of conflict of interest and you want to get a certain result.

And so that is what we've been seeing. A lot of is taking this, all this type of information and twisting it to benefit a company's financial gains in some way or another. So Rob Wolf speaks about this a lot. He also talks about how there's a lot of. Character assassination that comes from, the pro vegans side, where instead of providing a valuable, arguments and discussions, they just try to assassinate your character instead and how that really doesn't, push the envelope.

So they are trying to share as solid of evidence as possible. Because they know these type of attacks are going to come at them. And as they alluded to, there's going to be people on both sides that aren't going to be that excited about some of the results that they have found from their research. And that's on pro me and pro vegan sides.

so it's, it's, it'll be interesting to see what type of information comes out in the book. And then, I believe in August or in the next couple of months, their documentary will release as well, which is, you know, it's funded by individual people. There's no big companies that are putting up a bunch of money.

Into the funding of all of this stuff. So, that's why I wanted to bring Diana Rogers on the show to talk about, some of the information that we'll be in the book and the documentary, and to start having these conversations about, you know, what can we do? To help the planet in the long run, because we do have 7.5 billion mouths to feed on this planet and we do need to be looking at environmental impact overall.

So how can we do that without causing a whole lot of nutritional deficiencies? And also without destroying the planet and that's the big conversation and that's what they were trying to figure out with their book and the documentary. So let's go into my conversation with Diana Rogers and see what she has to say.

Diana Rogers is a real food, licensed, registered dietician nutritionist. Living on a working organic farm in new England, she runs an active nutrition practice where she helps people with the weight metabolic and intestinal issues recover their health through diet and lifestyle. She is also working on a new book and film project called sacred cow, and it's exploring the important role of animals in our food system.

Thank you Diana for coming onto the show. 

Diana Rodgers: [00:05:40] Thank you for having me. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:05:41] Of course. And before we start talking more about, the film project and the book that you have coming out, I would love to know a little bit more about your background, especially as a real food, a registered dietician. So tell me just so your experience leading into what the real food part of being a dietician.

Sure. 

Diana Rodgers: [00:05:59] so this was a career change for me. I, Was in marketing for many, many years. And, I found out when I was 26, that I had celiac disease, which is a, allergy to gluten and, have always been interested in nutrition and, Really started getting interested in studying more about nutrition through our farm.

When we were hosting a wasn't a price, sort of a pickup site for raw milk. And, all these people were coming in for their raw milk. And I was just kind of curious about why they were all drinking this raw milk. It sounded funny to me and eating butter, which I also thought was. Something you weren't supposed to do.

And so I started learning more. I went to a Western price conference, decided to attend the nutritional therapy association program, where I became an NCP. And, and then I decided to, I'm a registered dietician, which is a graduate program, so that I could take insurance and, really work more closely with doctors and, But I still, unlike most dietitians, I still believe that we should get most of our nutrients from real whole unprocessed food.

and then the, the farming kind of. Segue into this is that, I ended up, being married to a farmer for 18 years and, noticed that whoever was talking about sustainable diets and food, we're really talking about vegetarian and vegan type diets. And, from what I was learning from my nutrition studies is, you know, that's just not.

optimal for humans, but then also from my experience, living on farms and working on farms, realize that you can't have, you can't have grow food without animals. And so, where is that Venn diagram between optimal human health and sustainable farming? And that's really where I realized that no one was.

Speaking much about, how real food, including animal products are actually the most sustainable. it's the most sustainable way to go. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:07:56] Yeah, and you just brought up a really good, a point that we should cover is there is a lot of push right now for a plant based type diets. And there's a, you know, we had the game changers come out.

We had a, what the hell is it health a couple of years ago? And the, you know, they're trying to create these documentary or he's showing that a plant base is just as good as You know, getting nutrients from other food, but, it sounds like you come from a similar mindset as I do where we are omnivores and we get different nutrients from the different types of foods that we eat and by limiting and excluding one type of food item or option out of our diet.

So we could be setting ourselves up for a different health issues later on down the road. So, I do want to go into, you know, just some of the different arguments that we're seeing from that plant-based community, especially around environmental impact. And since you mentioned sustainable farms, hopefully that would mean less environmental impact, but let's, let's touch on that topic first.

So environmentally. th they are saying that plant based diets. And if we only ate plants and removed all these animals from the planet that we use for meat consumption, this is going to be a lot better for the planet and climate change and everything else overall. So what have you discovered while doing your book and the film project?

Diana Rodgers: [00:09:21] well, before I even started the book and film project, just from, you know, looking at farming or, you know, from organic perspective, you actually can't grow plants in an organic way without animal inputs. And so that's really the foundation of all of this. And so our modern industrial agriculture system relies on chemicals, that, you know, get into our waterways, destroys top soil and, And, you know, rely heavily on fossil fuels.

and the type of agriculture that we, should be shifting more to is a regenerative agriculture, which means that it actually is improving the soil and improving the ecosystem function. And, it's absolutely impossible to have regenerative, a full. Regenerative system without animal inputs. So, we absolutely have to have, there's no ecosystems in nature that are free of animals.

and so farms should be as a closed loop as possible. And, so you know, the farm where I live is primarily a vegetable farm, but we wouldn't be able to grow all these vegetables without the manure, from the chickens. And, You know, the fish emulsion that we, that we use from the fishing industry here in Massachusetts, we get fertilizer from them.

so all organic. Farms are relying on animal inputs in some way. And, you know, it's not just poop from, you know, the, the horse farm up the street. It's like blood meal and bone meal, and that's what soil needs, and that's what soil is. It's dead things, that are decomposing and, and, and turning into life.

And so, that's sort of the foundation of 

Bryan Carroll: [00:10:57] the book in the film. And that's kind of interesting too, because if you. If you're not growing plants organically, and you're using all these chemicals to kill off the pests that might take out the crops and all that type of stuff, then you are removing different animal life from those types of farms.

Is that correct? 

Diana Rodgers: [00:11:14] Exactly. Yeah. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:11:16] And then, now the other argument there is we wouldn't have to grow as many plants. On the planet. If we weren't feeding all those big animals, however, we still have to feed people. So if you take away all those animals, and then you had to just feed people with plants, is that going to be about the same amount of food that you would have to grow one way or the other plant wise?

Diana Rodgers: [00:11:39] Well, so first of all, we actually don't have a problem with food production. We grow about 30% more food than we need right now. so we don't have calorie production issue. We have a nutrient production issue. Most people are not getting the nutrition they need and they're overeating calories. and so, there was one study that looked at what would happen if the U S went completely animal free for our diet.

And it showed that, Overall calorie consumption would go up. carbohydrate consumption would go up and nutrient deficiencies would go up. and that's because, Animal protein is actually much more nutrient dense and satiating than trying to get those same calories from corn or soy or, other plant material.

so I'm not against eating vegetables. I think that those are a really good thing to eat, but I also think that, what we need is more, good meat production in the U S. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:12:32] Yeah. And I would say a lot of the, the, plants that are grown right now are just from a few of the same crops. Right? So when you're talking about vegetables In a healthy way for us, would you be looking for more variety of vegetables in our diets? 

Diana Rodgers: [00:12:49] Yeah, we don't need what I think. bananas and apples are the two most popular fruit and bananas don't even grow in the U S which is pretty sad. and, I mean, we do grow a lot of crops for livestock feed and, but most of our crop production actually goes into ethanol.

and that's extremely inefficient. and so if we've removed ethanol production completely from. From our system. And if we took the corn that we're growing to feed cattle and turn that into pasture and then started utilizing regenerative techniques that actually increase the carrying capacity of the land, plus utilized, The other land that is not grazed efficiently here in the U S we have plenty of land to grass finish our entire beef cattle herd.

and so it's, it's really not. the argument really shouldn't be plants versus animals. It should be looked at from a more scientific and less emotional perspective. And, we should be looking at, what is most nutrient dense diet for humans. And then what is, how do we grow that food in the most sustainable way?

Bryan Carroll: [00:13:53] And you've mentioned a nutrients a couple of times now. And, you were talking about, animal products have different nutrients that is really hard to come by through just plants itself. what are some of those main nutrients that are derived from animal products that are harder to get from plant products?

Diana Rodgers: [00:14:08] so the, the biggest one that you absolutely can't get from plant products is B12. and then there are nutrients that you can get, in both plants and animals, but, many of them are more bioavailable to humans from the animal source. So iron is a really good example of, heme iron, which is, is found in meat products is much more usable by the body then, Then the iron you find in spinach and it's a much higher quantities and that's something that kids really need in order to grow properly.

In addition to B12, another example would be vitamin a retinol. so, the plant version of that is called beta carotene. which about half of all humans can't convert efficiently to the active form of retinol that we need. So some people can, many people can't. and so there's just a lot of reasons why it makes a lot of sense to try to get your nutrients from food and not from supplements or only relying on plants for those 

Bryan Carroll: [00:15:06] nutrients.

You've also talked about, You know, having animals graze on food that is more natural for them instead of just feeding them grain. And he talked about the different, There could be different nutrient values in the, those two different types of meats. So is there actually a difference between like a grass fed beef versus a, a beef that is raised only on grains and corn?

And if so, like how much different is the nutritional values of that? 

Diana Rodgers: [00:15:34] so actually in the book we do go through that. And, I should, just clarify that there's no beef cattle in the U S that are only eating corn or grains. so cattle that are finished on a feedlot are grazed first. so it's only about the last three months that they are finished on a feedlot.

and where there are some differences between feedlot finished beef and grass fed beef. The differences are not. In terms of what would make a difference in your own body? The differences are not significant. and that's just what the science shows. So there was one very large study that looked at, the differences in 800 samples of grass fed beef and found a lot of people talk about the Omega ratio.

So we'll make a six to Omega three. So you want to try to have more Omega threes and less Omega sixes because Omega threes are anti-inflammatory. and a lot of people will tout grassfed beef is having, you know, a much better ratio. but. first of all, this one very large study found the ratio anywhere between 20 to one to one to one.

So, it could have been 20 to one Omega six to three. So at 2020 times, Omega six, two a one-to-one. And, but we should also just look at what contribution these fats actually make when you eat a steak to begin with. And it's very small. So it's as if I was to tell you that, two pennies is twice as much money as one penny.

It's still not very much money. You're not going to significantly improve your personal health by switching to grass fed beef for a few meals a week. it's, it's just not what the studies show. there could be, just not in the literature right now. And I did a pretty exhaustive search of, of all the literature.

but that doesn't mean that, there is not good reasons to buy grass fed beef and regenerative. Products. there's very good environmental reasons. There's really good ethical reasons. but I think that, as a dietician, I could never say to somebody only eat organic vegetables or don't eat vegetables.

Right. And so to the people that can't access grass fed meat, I think it's unethical to say, well only eat grass fed meat or don't eat meat. because I think that meat is. A healthy food for humans and, you know, for people, not everyone can have the ability to get grass fed beef. so for those folks, they should just be eating meat and vegetables, not, Oh, I couldn't get grass fed beef.

So I ate a bagel instead, or a Twinkie or something like that. Right. or even beans and rice, because we have a population in the United States where 70% are overweight or obese. getting your protein from beans in wa and rice is four times the calories. That and getting your protein from beef. And so, we have to think about the overall health of Americans as well.

switching to more plant based diet. We don't want people eating more calories. We don't want them eating more carbohydrates. and that's what's happening right now. We have a, we have a problem with carbohydrates and we have a problem with, too many calories being eaten. So, so with my dietician hat on, I say, you know, buy the best meat you can afford.

but then as a sustainability advocate, I also want see a better system out there. Hmm. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:18:43] Does that change at all for like smaller animals, like chickens who are typically indoors and only eating grain and seeds? 

Diana Rodgers: [00:18:52] Yeah. So there is a big difference, in. The eggs from chickens in particular, pasture raised chicken eggs are way better for you than typical chicken eggs.

pasture raised chicken is better. but chicken overall is still pretty high. I don't make a sixes. and so if someone's looking to cut down, because chickens still eat, I mean, birds eat seeds and grains. that's what they eat. and so I don't really know anyone who grows. Grass fed chickens because that's just not a thing, but a lot of people think that chickens out on grass only eat grass.

They're eating bugs, they're eating seeds, they're getting supplemented with grain. and so, You know, chicken is not as nutrient dense as beef. It's just not as healthy for you to eat. that doesn't mean I never eat chicken, but, I just think it's a, it's important to get a wide variety of, you know, fish and different types of meat and poultry, that we also see a really big difference.

In dairy products. So because there's more fat in dairy products that you're eating overall grass fed, dairy products are significantly healthier for you than typical dairy products. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:19:56] Interesting. So you've brought up the term sustainable, quite a few times, and I'm sure a lot of people have seen videos from like PETA and whatnot where You know, the animals are just packed in or not treated very well. And then, just driving around, you can see that. A lot of farms only have one specific animals. So it might just be a cattle farm, or it might just be a chicken farm or anything like that. What does sustainable mean? And what would a sustainable farm will look like?

Diana Rodgers: [00:20:25] well, no organic sustainable and regenerative or sort of interchangeable terms. really most people are talking about regenerative agriculture right now because that implies that it's improving the biodiversity. So. I kind of use those words interchangeably, but, you know, sustainable would be something that, can be sustained over a period of time.

and our definitely our modern industrial agriculture system reliant on fossil fuels and just one type of a crop or one type of an animal is not a healthy ecosystem. You don't go out into nature and see only one type of tree for miles and miles and miles. There's a, there's a wide variety. So the most healthy ecosystems across the planet.

Are the ones that have the most diversity in them. So the most types of critters and plants and, and everything working together, to create a really healthy dynamic system. And, in the book we give an example of that called grass worlds, where we walk people through an example of, of why it's so important.

So folks can see that. And then, in the film, we also illustrate that really well with some animations. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:21:28] Yeah, we had Joel Salatin on a couple of years ago talking about what, he's done over at his farm too, with the rotation of animals and how that kind of helps with the soil and the bio diversity as well.

So is that kind of the, what you're talking about? 

Diana Rodgers: [00:21:42] Yes. Yep. And Joel's in the film. Yeah. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:21:45] Perfect. Perfect. so the big question is, you know, we're trying to get to more regenerative farming, more sustainable farming. But we still have seven and a half billion people in the world to feed. Is there a good way to do this on a mass scale or do we have to do it on a smaller scale with smaller, smaller local farmers?

And then, it would be better for people to support the local farms in their area instead of buying from big grocery stores. 

Diana Rodgers: [00:22:14] Well, I think we need both actually. so I think we need more people supporting small and midsize farms in their regions, and, and buying more direct or, or closer to the farmer, but we also can't make big shifts without this happening at scale, and it can happen at scale.

So, one of the farms that we visit in the film in Mexico, these, this collective of farmers are regenerating a million acres of land. you know, I heard not too long ago, the McDonald's in Canada, 30% of their beef is grass fed. So, so I want to see this happen at every scale. I don't want this, you know, this can't just be a purist small farm movement.

This needs to happen. At general mills making their pledges, this needs to happen with, Applegate who are, you know, selling so much more grassfed products and regenerative products. So I think it has to happen at the corporate level and at the, at the grocery store level. And it has to happen, at the smaller size as well.

Bryan Carroll: [00:23:12] Now, if these companies start taking on something like this, You know, how can we as consumers notice a difference? Is there a way for us to notice a difference in, especially, you know, since these films keep coming out about how much these animals just destroy the planet, destroy the planet. how can we know that, you know, this is a natural way that this is supposed to happen, and these companies are turning more towards this natural way of doing it.

Diana Rodgers: [00:23:42] Well, I think companies are trying to do a really good job of marketing themselves and some of them are, unfortunately using the term regenerative and sustainable, even when they're not. So people need to be a lot more educated on what that actually looks like and make sure that these companies are held responsible for, the claims that they're making.

but, but there's a lot of companies out there that are doing great work. Timberland is coming out with a regenerative boot. you know, made from leather from generative cattle. So, I think, it's, it's in fashion now, which is a good thing. And, we need to celebrate the companies that are making the right decisions.

Bryan Carroll: [00:24:16] It is kind of interesting, cause like right now we're seeing these big, big meat plants that are getting shut down and there's the threat of potentially, food shortages. So I think people are becoming more aware of what's locally around them, a farm wise and trying to get more creative and finding. you know, those local farmers.

So I do think that this could be a really good time for those local farmers to start, marketing what it is that they do better, and get that type of product in front of more people. What do you think? 

Diana Rodgers: [00:24:44] Yeah, exactly. I agree. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:24:46] Yeah. so as a farmer, What are some more ways that a farmer can learn more about these regenerative practices so that they can start implementing it into their own farms?

Diana Rodgers: [00:24:57] well, to visit some farms that are actually doing it, there's some great schools out there ranching for profit is a really great. School, we actually filmed with them a little bit. and, so they, they just teach you how to think about your farm differently so that you can actually leave it as a legacy for your children.

and, but it also is highly reliant on these regenerative techniques that actually increase your forage production, increase the carrying capacity of your land. You'll actually make more money doing it this way. You'll have less inputs. You won't have to spray as much chemicals. It's it's actually less labor.

So it's, it's, it's a win for farmers to make the switch. we need to, Oh, another, place that people can learn as a savory Institute. so they do. They have hubs all over the world and they run training programs for farmers in holistic management, which is the type of, grazing. So I think people should just go and check it out and see what it is.

and we give many examples of that in our film, so they can see it in action 

Bryan Carroll: [00:25:57] is a sacred cow going to have like a central database or do you know of any central database where, farms that are sustainable and regenerative can, submit their information and have like a central database that people can look up 

Diana Rodgers: [00:26:09] well, eat wild.com is a great resource, for consumers looking for to source meat.

So that would also be maybe a place that farmers could look to, see what other farmers are doing. Yeah, here in Massachusetts, we have a craft program where we, it's a collaborative regional Alliance for farmer training. And so, every other Wednesday you go to a different person's farm and learn a new technique, like flame weeding with a blow torch or how to process chickens or something like that.

And so it's a great way of just sharing knowledge, because every farm has unique challenges and, you know, have developed good skills in certain areas. and so, yeah, those would be two, any book by Joel Salatin? 

Bryan Carroll: [00:26:51] yeah. Perfect. Well, is there any final things you want to talk about with the film, the book, everything coming out and around sustainable and regenerative farming?

Diana Rodgers: [00:27:02] well, I can just kind of give a plug, so, folks can find me on Instagram at sustainable dish. the book is available right now. it comes out, July 14th and, anyone who preorders the book will get a, when they submit their [email protected] forward slash book. Maybe you could put that link in there.

if they submit their receipt online to us, by July 14th, they will actually get a preview link to see the film. So, that's a pretty awesome perk. We're also giving away a cookbook and a bunch of bonus interviews that didn't make it into the films about four and a half hours of footage. A bunch of other things that are not coming, Oh, a bunch of discounts from great me companies that I love.

so it's, it's over just those bonuses without the film is worth over $200 just for pre-ordering the book. And we're trying to get the book on the New York times list. And so having these concentrated sales right here will actually get more attention, for the mission that we're trying to promote here for better meet.

So, the more, the more sales we can try to get, Right around the time of publication. the better our chances are. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:28:06] And I have the preorder and all of the bonuses are awesome and stuff like this, you know, I think more people need to learn about it because like I said, you have all these other documentaries that are getting slapped in our faces.

And a lot of people are very curious about trying out, the information that they share. But if we just go back to the basics and the roots of regenerative farming and eating the way the body is designed to do, people are going to fuel a lot. Better overall. and I think this type of information just needs to get more out there.

So I would love for people to go to sacred cow.info, to learn more, and they can get the book. They can get the preview link too, the film and everything. My final question to you is, what do you do each day to take care of your own health? 

Diana Rodgers: [00:28:53] Oh, that's a good question. Don't ask me right now because launching a book and a film and being like four days behind an email, and it's not a good time to ask me that, you know, I'm still on top of all this eating grade, so that does help, I suppose.

so I eat mostly meat, vegetables, and, you know, I drank water. So I guess I could say that. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:29:15] Which is great. Cause I mean, the majority of people are extremely stressed out. So if you can just buckle down on eating as best you can and drinking water, then boom. That's a great resource right there. Well, Diana, thank you so much for coming on.

like I said, we're going to get this out to as many people as we can right before the preorders is up. So, thank you so much for coming on. 

Diana Rodgers: [00:29:36] Thank you. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:29:37] As you can see a lot of the information that Diana shared is very interesting, especially like I said, at the beginning of this, people might be upset on both the sides of the equation, the pro meet and the probie and sides because, from some of the studies that they did.

You know, the nutritional value of Roma, grass fed beef versus conventionally raised beef is not that much different, but when you go into some of the climate and the environmental impact, it's not as detrimental to the environment to raise these animals, compared to what some of the pro vegan sides have talked about.

So I'm super excited to read through the book and see the different information. And, what I really like about Diana Rogers and Rob Wolf is if they made mistakes, they will own up to it. They're not going to try and defend the mistakes and try to play it off. If they did a terrible job with any of the research and people come out and say, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong.

They will definitely own up to it, which is great because that's what we need when we're trying to do any type of journalism or research or anything. And so, I'm very curious to see what the response will be like. And, I hope that everything goes really well. And I'm very excited to see more of this information.

So if you want to preorder sacred cow, then make sure you get it today because tomorrow it comes out. If you get it July 13th. Then you can get access to all of the bonus material and you can get the [email protected] slash sacred cow. And then make sure to turn in the receipt directly to sacred cow.info and you'll get access to the bonus material.

Okay. Next week I have Logan Christopher on the show. So let's go learn a little bit more about Logan. I am here with Logan, Christopher. Hey Logan. What is one unique thing about you that most people don't know? 

Logan: [00:31:36] I played Dungeons and dragons as a kid. And I felt that helped set me up well for life, by looking at how I could level up.

Bryan Carroll: [00:31:44] Nice. I liked the way you, you weaved that one in there, especially with leveling up. Nice. Well, what will we be learning about in our interview together? 

Logan: [00:31:54] I'll be talking about performance herbalism, what it is and how it can really help you perform better at life. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:32:00] And what are your favorite foods and nutrients that you think everyone should get more of in their diet?

Logan: [00:32:05] Well, in addition to herbs in general, some of the favorite things I think would help people out as bone broth, and stuff that people are critically deficient in magnesium, vitamin D, everything like that. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:32:17] And, what are your top three health tips for anyone who wants to improve their overall wellness?

Logan: [00:32:22] Learn how to breathe, right? Sadly, most people do that wrong. It means deep breathing. It means breathing through the nose and actually empty, like not big volume breath, which is different than deep. I'd say, learn processes that help you change your habit habits because health is ultimately a collection of your habits put together.

And then lastly, sunbathe naked. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:32:44] Sunbathe naked, the how, how do you do that?  

but that 

Logan: [00:32:51] has been shown, especially for men to increase testosterone levels greater than just otherwise getting the Sunwood. So might be interesting for guys, especially, but good for women too.

Bryan Carroll: [00:33:02] Is there a certain length of time that you had to be in the sun? To get those benefits 

Logan: [00:33:07] just normal bathing time, you know, obviously do not overdo it on this. 

Bryan Carroll: [00:33:15] You're going to get burdened. Some places you've never been burnt before. Logan's definitely an interesting person to chat with. So until then, keep climbing to the peak of your health.